Losing motivation ,,, sigh

See, I can't event type 3 dots properly!

Well I'm currently feeing a tad unmotivated. It's because I'm running into technical problems with BlitzMax running on different PCs. This kind of technical pap is always annoying.

When I made Xmas Bonus, I realised that the game wasn't going to run on slow PCs and thus spent about a week researching, making and testing a 5 buffer dirty rects system that radically solved everything. But even later on I found out that it didn't always do what it was supposed to on some systems because I assumed all PCs had 2 backbuffers which, unfortunately, isn't the case. Also it was hell to work with, you had to think everthing though very carefully before implementing it.

Also some people on these forums can be a bit negative at times. I don't know why they do it. Perhaps they enjoy it, perhaps they think they are being helpful, perhaps they don't realise they are doing it. Of course no one likes to hear the stuff they've been working on for ages slated, even if sometimes it's justified. However I think there are ways to go about things and ways *not* to communicate for sure. Maybe it's because I'm English, I expect a common courtesy from fellow members, or maybe I'm just old fasioned. I often think that I bet people wouldn't be so rude to your face.

> Also some people on these forums can be a bit
> negative at times. I don't know why they do it.

It's because they're too lazy and untalented to do stuff themselves.

My advice is never tell anyone what games you're working on, and maybe even not tell them when you've finished either.

Because even if you make the best game ever, there will always be some nobhead there to try and take you down.

Ahmen :P

Dude, don't go giving up. Takes a lot of work to do what you've done and I feel the difference between failure and success is down to how far you go without giving up.

I also see a lot of jealousy these days. :)

Cheer up, av a pint, and relax :-)

we had the same problem with our racing game and B3D, which was just too limited to make it as good as we wanted overal. In the end we spent about 3 months disillusioned and looking elsewhere for another affordable engine with a decent art path. Thats how I ended up starting trying to get what is now Aurora started.

I got used to critiques after doing 4 years of design at Uni. Used to get about one project a week for a class of 22 by the last year. And Fridays was usualy 8 hours of criticising one anothers work. It was actualy really useful despite being so negative, you got a lot of ideas and insight from other peoples and opinions, and your final grade was determined in part by your classmates scores, not just your lecturers.

In comparrison the kind of stuff here can be taken with a pinch of salt :)

Thanks guys, I guess it's Friday so I can relax later. Plus I'm driving to Manchester this weekend for some Aikido, no PCs in site which might be theraputic. I won't give up I'm just feeling down right now. Perhaps I should fire up Quake 4 for a bit...


Evak, yeah I'm pretty good at receiving and offering criticism. In fact I criticise myself a lot as a path to self-improvement. The key thing is being polite and constructive, not destructie though, and as forums are so impersonal, I think people are more willing to be destructive.

No. NO. NO. NO! :P

Manchester? Cool, thats some distance! Have fun!

I had a similar experience to Evak at college, a day of criticism. "Eh, that chord shouldn't change there!" etc, and the occasional ballhead who just comments "Thats crap."

Enjoy your weekend :)

[edit]



You're excelent with it and without it i'd not have been able to get the music into the quality you required for EB :)

You`ve just got to take the bad days with the good. There are plenty of people here who admire your work, I am one of them as you know. Some people are just plain negative all the time, it`s just who they are. Don`t let them drag you down to their level. Rise above it and carry on doing what you do best.

No matter how good something is you always, always getting someone telling you it`s crap.

Jason.

Yeah rise above it and if that fails write a really shitty post and then delete it before you send it :)

OR we can just have a quick 5 minute conference chat on SKYPE and put the world to rights.

Who's gonna come and play? indiepath.tim

Hey, hang in there Mr Alien. Sometimes disillusionment is a good thing as it's telling you something isn't right - listen to it. Then when you've listened to it and the reasons for it, decide where you are going to go next, maybe in new directions you hadn't thought of. Think of it as an opportunity and a challenge, not something to be defeated by.

As for the negative folks, there's always going to be these people who project their negativity onto what you do. It's their choice and it really has nothing to do with who or what you are or what your project is or how good it is. Remember that self esteem is about how YOU value YOURSELF, it has absolutely nothing to do with what other people think of you or what you create. For the most part, constructive criticism can be useful to an extent, so long as it is not stuck in being negative for the sake of it, otherwise it is unproductive and unconstructive.

Also maybe you need to step back, take a bit of a break and relax for a while, ponder things, get some space and find some inspiration.

Take heart Grey, you're beating me on web plays on cloverleaf now at least :P

Motivation is a bugger. Mine's currently on the floor. :/

You'll always get some people saying things just for effect. i.e. trolling.

Self-crticism can end up tying you in knots because it rarely (if ever) ends up with you feeling good about yourself/achievements, and consequently, ends up killing motivation. Instead of criticizing yourself, maybe you should count your blessings?

hey... why do ya think i'm always defecting every few weeks... j/k

i think we all go through this... i'm a lil down on Blitz right now as well... my issues have to do with timing and such...

but i'm 90% sure that it is my fault, and not Blitz's...

... ok, 80% sure :)

--Mike

Grey,

Have a great weekend and remember the old adage

"You don't build a reputation on what you are GOING to do!"

IPete2.

Excuse the fun factor.. but go watch Alien or Aliens, those movies always have me getting creative etc. :P

if someones too negative, ask them what you should do to improve it. I'f they can't suggest anything or are rude about it, you might as well ignore them. The worse something is the easier it should be to provide something constructive, so Crap won't cut it.

I used to hate the day long critiques because the first few people always got the obvious ones, leaving everyone else to really analyze what they are looking at and come up with something new and intelligent to say, or feel like a right lemon with a couple of dozen pair of eyed fixed on you lol.

Thanks for your input everyone it helps to know I have friends out there! I'm feeling a bit better already. I think I'll spend some time with the kids and relax. Those technical issues can wait until Monday :-)

Cygnus and Quicksilva: you two are great. Some of the best people I've ever worked with, thanks.

Indiepath: "write a really shitty post and then delete it before you send it :) " lol, that's good advice. I've done that with letters before, write it, then don't send it cos you feel better already.

AngelDaniel: wise words thanks. I know that stuff but sometimes you need to hear it again to kick start yourself.

Aymes: Yes but Protogem is climbing fast! Also you've got a new game in the wings yes?

Big10p: well I hope you feel better soon and get on with some cool programming. Luckily I'm OK withy self-critcism as I've been practicing it so long I don't tend to demotivate myself, just technical stuff drags me down, and sometimes other people, I shouldn't let them get to me but sometimes they do ... must develop a Bhuddist-like calmness that bounces off all negativity!

Red: I'm sure if you post about your timing issues, people can help. There are solutions out there.

IPete2: Thanks for your support and your phone call.

CS_TBL: Lol, well I have some kung fu movies waiting to be watched and feel like a takeaway tonight, plus there's some white wine chilling in the fridge so think might be OK. (I won't drink much wine, drinking too much or too often isn't healthy imho)

Ebak: sounds quite funny, kind of sink ro swim. But it must have helped overall right? Being aware that things need to change is very important in game development (well al walks of life actually). I changed a lot of stuff in Easter Bonus and would have changed more given time, but the overall result was pretty good imho.

Grey: Don't stress, just take your kids out and relax for a while. We'll all still be here when you come back :D

Yeah, I'll have some of that! :P

In the meantime, I'm gonna have a bath and then several 'medicinal' beers. It's Friday! :)

Everyone on the forums should be like me.

Right, that's that sorted.

Unfortunately, BMax is just not as compatible as previous versions of Blitz. I honestly don't think this will change anytime soon. It has been out for over 18 months and still has some serious graphics related issues that need ironing out. I really don't understand it since the DX side of things should be simple with all the work Mark put into previous DX based versions of Blitz.

Don't let this get you down though. This is a problem with Blitz and a limitation with Blitz, it is not a problem with you, your coding skills or your creativity (all of which are excellent).

You could always switch to C++/VB/Delphi and use one of the many great, established and affordable "2D in 3D" engines that are available. Or even use one of those engines with BMax if you can easily wrap them ;c)

Put me on this list, too. The demos of Easter Bonus & Christmas Bonus were awesome, I enjoyed playing with them.

I realise what I'm setting myself up for here, but anyway...

You can't brand everyone who doesn't like your stuff a 'troll'.


Perhaps they honestly just don't like your game?

Personally I didn't even bother playing any of your games because all this "match three" lark bores me rigid. But, each to their own...

At the end of the day, you can't please everybody. Would you rather people just gave you a slap on the back for everything you do no matter how good/bad it is? Or would you prefer them to tell you the truth? Honest negative comments are going to make your future work improve so you really should be thanking people for them.

Kuron: Yeah I've used Delphi for years and also Allegro for C++ so I know their power, but also how long stuff takes, plus it'd be a whole new learning curve. This forum is great for help too. Glad you like my work.

Gfk: Don't worry I'm cool with "positive" negative comments, just not trolling, but I'll get used to that too soon enough. Of course not everyone will like my games and that's fine as well. Hey did you try out my game framework yet?

Critisism is difficult to take for most people - especially when it's not backed-up with any real reason.

I've had experience of this recently when I decided to buy myself a SLR Camera and enrole on a photography course.

Suddenly my photo's were being critisised for the first time - because the tutor was looking at the photo's as somebody that knew more about the subject than the average person. This could explain what you're experiencing - in a way we're all tutors of some degree. And I think when you start charging (as you have) for programs, people's expectations rise - sometimes out of all proportion to what they paid for the product.

What I've learn't is to listen to the critisism, think it through and see if the person has a point - however rude he or she is and not let it become personal. That's how we improve - despite the bruised ego along the way.

right!

There should always be room for critisism, no matter what, as long as it explains how/why + suggestions on how to improve.

As a developer you should never blame the one who gives critisism of 'putting down' orso, if it has good explanations/reasoning.

</art-edu>

Well we all agree then: good critcism has good explanations (and I personally prefer it if it's worded politely).

This is wise Steve:

pull your finger out and forget the technical crap and concentrate on the GAME

cuddle up to the missus and take a couple of nights off... the kids need you as well, forget pcs they are GAY and just a job.

hmm... if PCs are gay, then my PC must be of the lesbo type ^_^

Figure of speech anyone?

sure I can forget about the PCs since I just got a £1150 electricity bill!!! And noone at SWEB knows how to sort it out even though I plainly haven't used 12000 units in 3 months. That's 133KW per day. Yeah like, I really like my heaters, ovens, kettles etc... Worse thing is the meter reading is accurate now and was before but it's wrapped from 97000 to 09000 = 12000 units. The meter must have had a flip out moment or something. This is crazy and the SWEB people are clueless... doh! ARG.

What is all this defective invective about defecaters and defecting? *Ooops wrong thread*


Grey Alien, you just need a change of scenery, full stop. The last time that happened to me I emigrated (I didn't defect, okay) and I havn't been back to the UK in 7 years!!! Woohoo!

I recommend it btw. The UK can be very depressing, from what I remember, or am unable to forget.

Yeah I want to get a regular income from games then move somewhere warmer.

I agree with Enay ... just don't show what you're working on until you're ready. Criticism isn't a bad thing. However, there's a good point in the project to receieve criticism and that's after you've exhausted yourself and can't think of anyway to make something better.

The problem is early on in the project ... you generally know there are about 1001 things that need to be fixed but you show off what you're working on to get some praise for the early stuff to motivate you to fix the 1001 things you already know about. I find that it's a lot more helpful to just crank away on what you're doing until you yourself can't find much wrong with it. You've tied all the lose ends together that you can find and then you show it off knowing full well it's pretty damn good and that any criticism is only going to make it better, not unmotivate you like it does in the really early stages of development.

Bottomline you're doing really well right now! Don't lose your motivation and maybe just hold back a little on communicating with potentially jealous community members for motivational purposes. Just do what you're doing because it's working ... at this point you don't need anyone else's approval. Just make sure that when the time's right ... that it's your best foot forward.

Keep yer chin up, go read a book, practice yer martial art and take a break. There were times when I used to think my head was going to explode when a programmming block, or encroaching senility would have me staring red-eyed at the monitor and cursing like a sailor who just missed happy hour at mamma-sans :)

Just think about something else and let yer brain sort it out in the background :)

CHeers

Garion

I'm thinking about food right now ...

Puki said you could eat his sausage

I most certainly did not.

I suggest you edit that post. I don't want "Beaker" finding out - he's very protective of me. Like a big old hen.

@ Grey, hope you get your motivation back soon :)

Iv'e recently been through a similar experience with one of my projects. I think it's perfectly normal to lose motivation from time to time, i know a lot of other Dev's that go through it too(not just programmers, artists etc).

When i feel like that now, i just leave it for a while and come back to it when i'm ready ;-)

Youv'e probably seen these already, but there are some articles from Dexterity.com (Personal Productivity & Motivation) that might be worth a read if you haven't read them already:

http://www.dexterity.com/articles/



Unfortuanately, you get this on most forums, i used to be a regular over at gamedev.net (which used to be/ probably still is a lot worse for this kind of (negativity and flaming) thing than these forums are), i don't have as much time as i used to to visit forums now, but it used to be really bad over there. I steer clear of getting involved in those kinds of posts and just get back to what i'm working on.



Agreed, and like you, i have an old fashioned attitude of being polite and expect the same. But Unfortuanately, some people on the net are just crazy ;-)

Better to just not take it seriously, take it with a pinch of salt :)

Have a good weekend in Manchester,

cheers,
Lee.

yeah thanks opcode. I like Steve's articles too. Read them about 18 months ago just before I got into this whole thing. He's to blame! grr. ;-) Anyway, yeah I feel a bit better now, dips in motivation are normal I guess, then you can come out of them and feel good again when it all works. I'd fell good if a new version of BlitzMax came out with some graphics and sound bug fixes. Meanwhile it's workaround time!

Just a quick note Grey, I thought the demo of your Easter Bonus was very impressive. I'm still quite new to the PC version of this 3DBBasic malarky, however I cut my teeth on an Amiga version wayback.

You mentioned using Delphi for years, I've just been given some advice to use this as opposed to VB6, I have installed a version of Delphi but I agree with you about 'whole new learning curves...' . Don't be disillusioned, I am a big fan of BBasic and the many ways people put it too good use.

Keep up the good work....

We all lose motivation once and a while, I find taking a break, playing some games, etc. helps me. In a few weeks I'll be back coding.

> In a few weeks I'll be back coding.

Eat some Special K. It's special, so that should perk you up a bit.

I expect every suffers from lack of motivation, I know I do from time to time.

I've been a self employed programmer for a few years now and I find the best thing to do when things get you down or go wrong is to take break from it, even if its for a few hours. Take a night off, grab a few beers and watch a comedy or something with your missus.

Recently I was doing a highly customised email client for a customer. About half way through I reliased I'd made a huge mistake in the way I was storing the emails. The code was getting very messy and each feature I was adding in which the customer wanted was getting harder and harder and the whole thing was getting out of hand.

So after a few mintues of choice words I ripped out a whole months worth of coding. Went down town, bought a few tins of beer and some wine for my fiancee and took the night off from programming completely. Next day I started off with little code routines to make sure things would work properly this time. After I was convinced all was ok I loaded back in the stripped out email prog and continued on from fresh. Within a week I was back on track with solid working code.

I also find that taking a break to mow the garden helps. As thats a dull task where you can get some fresh air and think.

Sometimes thinks just go wrong and get you down. If you know that what you're doing is not good enough, don't continue on, strip it out and start again.

well I went away to Oldham for the weekend (500+ mile round trip) and did some Aikido which was cool.

I've also solved the technical problem, and no one is (currently) being negative. nice!

i just solved my timing problem... at least i think i did... it was the freaking particles... i had wakes and waves jumping all over the place... practically covering the sub... redoing the code to limit the scale seems to be keeping everything at a pretty stable rate...

so i'm 'happy' with Blitz again... 'till the next big, self induced problem :)


--Mike

well I started work on my demo again and just realised what a huge task it would be to set up a proper game framework ie a save and load games, traps, puzzles, level changing, doors , keys , weapons, ai , pathing, underwater stuff, physics etc

Having said that, once all thats in place I can just fill in all the art assets myself, or do it as I go along more likely

Problem solving is very rewarding, even if you have a brain like mine which is more chaos than logic

Glad everything is now going good for you Grey.

Cheers,
Lee.

I'm a bit fed up with SRX at the moment, so I know how you feel about being demoralised. I seem to have been stuck in a rut for ages with nothing really progressing.

However, I recently started building a new SRX main vehicle to replace the old buggy model, retextured the track to something a bit muckier, and swapped my aging 9800 for a 6600GT, all of which has started to spark my interest again. I also got the AI player working so well that I can't beat him very often.

I think everyone goes through these stages in a project - once you get that initial breakthrough done (in my case getting the car physics sorted and working with such daft track shapes) it can then feel like nothing else major happens for ages.

We spent 3 months last year doing such things as;

Trying to get a computer to acknowledge a players existence.

I *so* almost gave up, but because of how close to completion we were just plain refused :)

Opcode: Yeah the framework's done and tested so I feel beter now. I can just get on with the main game which should actually be more straighforward. Also I have a nice half day off yesterday, it's quite a cool time of year when all the plants are really going for it!

Ive Totally lost motivation, I think my day job has worn me down

Any spare time I get I just sit there staring at the screen dribbling and humming….damn
Must watch RobotJox again see if that helps

I used to program all day in an office and didn't feel like much programming at home so I know the feeling.

So very close to that point myself. Trying a change of direction to see if that helps. If not then I have to face up to the reality of "letting go", even though I've been coding (mainly for fun*) for nearly 25 years.

* fun = not having to cram coding around a day job / wife / real life in general!

well i tried to look through agores lovely code but it was too much for my brain, so i gave up
I will stick to modelling and texturing thank you

I had back-burnered my Blitz projects (eg. Gyroman) for a couple months, but tonight I'm planning to get back on the saddle. Wish me luck!

Incidentally, I'd also like to get back into posting on this forum. As much of a time sink as I used to think this place was, it's nothing compared to the rest of the internet, plus at least I'm talking about Blitz.

depends where you post. If in the programming parts, you do learn stuff for sure, and help others which helps to reinforce your knowledge and sometimes you see things from another angle. In the general forum, it's fun and you meet people you can work with and you learn other stuff too, so I think it's worthwhile. More worthwhile than loads of crap on the Internet.