New Game Planned > 220 hours!

OK I've planned my next game (which I can't talk too much about due to NDA) and assigned estimates to each bit, but the plan looks like 220 hours minimum! This will most likely grow of course, but it's a good idea to have *some* idea of the commitment imho.

I'm going to convert my Easter Bonus engine from Plus to Max and completely overhall it to make better use of objects and all the 3D card fancy stuff (effects I mean, not actual 3d).

Then it's getting a totally new theme (not holiday related) and loads of extras inc. polish polish polish! I want it to be on par with Inca Quest (no mean feat!)

So expect to see a beta test around June sometime. The great thing is I've been given the go ahead by my other half to work on this full-time, even though it's a big risk, earning no money until the royalties come it.

Meanwhile I'm making a game framework in Max that incorporates all the things needed for a professional game (it's nearly done). Then I'm gonna make a little demo game for people to try out to check that the framework works OK. This will be the groundwork for the main game I'm doing. It's a bit boring making a good framework, but once the work is done, I can forget it (instead of worrying) and just get on with the fun of making the actual game :-)

I wish you all the best with this Jake, and look forward to seeing a beta. :)

Good luck, so I'll pencil you in for BH in July?

Are we taking bets? My money's on Halloween Bonus.
You're talking like that's a lot??

My projects - most of which I consider that I had to rush to meet deadlines, averaged about 2,000 hours per title. Ideally I would want 3,000-4,000 hours.

I disagree.

Looking at a project as a whole can make it seem like a monumental task, and there is no bigger motivation killer.

Having done this myself, I strongly urge you to think again. This is a very silly move as you said yourself you have no money coming in.

Keep your day-job until games programming starts to pay - then and only then should you even think about going fulltime with this.

Avon: Thanks!
Indiepath: yeah or "FS", pencil me in. Things may change but I'd like to do it.

GfK. Thanks for the advice:
1) It won't be Halloween Bonus :-) Although I have something up my sleeve along those lines.
2) Realistically it'll be more like 300 hours. That's excluding art, music and project management which is being done by other people. This isn't a brand new game remember, it's a conversion of existing engine to a similar but different language, then giving it a total reskin and adding in new features. Plus I'm a pretty experienced developer, so it shouldn't be throwing up any surprises (cross fingers!)
3) The project has been broken down into discrete steps and milestones etc which work as a motivational aid for me. I'm used to huge projects, been working on the same business software for 9 years! Some modules took a year full-time to make, so I'm no stranger to hard work.
4) so are you *still* full-time on games on not? It's not strictly true that I'll have no money coming in as the other half (Helen) will be doing *some* work and I'll still be doing one week per month of highly paid contract work, so I'll tick over. I'll still be making a loss each month, but it won't be chronic. Also you've got to speculate to accumulate! Game development is an area I'm very keen to get into more, and I've been finding out all about it for quite some time now. Also I know that soooo many people say this, but my next game is pretty much a "dead cert", 3rd time lucky and all that ... time will tell :-)

Ah, interesting. If Cobra is released prior to completion, will you switch to Cobra?

No I'm not doing it at present. I quit doing it fulltime in December 2003 after I finished Tennis Ace, and I've only done one other game since (Par Fore) and that was finished nearly a year ago.

I did a spell in Customer Services for British Gas for about 18 months, and quit due to serious family health problems back in October 2005. My head's kinda been all over the place for the last six months and its only now that I'm even beginning to think about coding again. I'm just playing with BlitzMax for now, so who knows what the future has in store.

Anyway, good luck with it all. Oh and by the way - the only "dead cert" in life, is uncertainty itself. Expect your plan to fall flat on its arse, and you won't be too disappointed when it does. Of course, you'll be pleasantly surprised if you can pull it off - just don't be complacent about it.

We have worklogs for this sort of thing.

puki: no, I won't be swapping to anything. That's a "dead cert" way of never finishing a project imho :-)

GfK: Ha yeah I'm only joking really about the dead cert, but you learn from each game you make and more about the market and what the portals want etc. Suffice to say, this game will be shamelessly geared towards maximum portal uptake and a theme that is very popular with families esp. in the U.S. So it stands a higher chance ... heh, I was pleasantly surprised that Xmas Bonus sold 222 copies (and is still selling)! It's not unreasonable to think a better game with more coverage can sell 20 times that imho.

E: yeah sorry, I'm not gonna make regular logs though, I was just "generally discussing" it. Also my post might be useful for people to gauge how long a game really takes, even a simple one...

Birkett's Big Bad Birthday Bonanza?

Ian: that's coming out on June 11th when I'm 31 ;-) Actually I'm hoping it'll be a "Big Boobs" birthday Bonanza :-D

Hmm...I don't think they'll suit you! ;o)

they're not for me! well ... maybe they are :-) I wish. I don't think I'd be allowed, ... maybe a lads night out oooh that Brighton conference is coming up ... who's up for a trip to a club of dubious nature?

Generally when I make estimates for 3D work and sometimes coding, I multiply the time I think it will take by 3, generally seems to turn out about right. So for your project it would be 660 hours, add 6 more for procrastination and you have a nice round demonic 666 hours. :-O

Ragnar

lol, yeah, the old multiply trick works for some people, but I've been estimating how long stuff takes to program in a known language for 9 years and people hold you to those times if they are paying so you have to get good at getting it right. For sure my game will take a bit longer because some parts of the plan have a ? in the time column :-)

I agree with Gfk, 220 hours seems a little optimistic, for a complete polished game. Overestimating is a good thing if people are paying you.

Or is the 220 hours thing just what you told the missus? :o>

What happens if you don't finish a part in the alotted time?

lol, yeah I did tell this missus 2 months. I'm not getting paid, it's a hansome royalty job, but that's fine with me as it's the same as making my own game anyway. Look I said it's 220 *minimum* as there are some question marks in the plan, so it might be more like 300. That's code only; if I added on the artists' and musician's time it would be a lot higher too. Plus it's not a complete game from scratch it's reusing all my old code etc that just needs to be converted in BMax, then a total reskin. Plus after programming for 22 years you can get stuff done pretty quick :-) I'm aiming for 2 months, but we can stretch to 3. If it takes any longer it just wouldn't be profitable. If you are making a game full time for a year, it had better be a best seller. At least with a 2-3 month game, if it flops, you haven't lost as much ... not that I'm thinking like that!

E: I have to eat my own testicles. Nah, the contract is flexible. We still need milestones and a deadline to get us focused, but we know that if the game needs more polishing or changes after alpha and beta testing, we'll put them in because this game has to be right for the portals and the market. When I was refering to payment and people holding you to times, that was for the business software I made for shops and the government. I've had to work all through christmas and new year a couple of times in the past, no holiday at all, to get ready for a Jan 2nd installation, it's crap, I don't wanna do it again.

If that ever does happen, let me know how they taste. I always figured fried testicles would taste good, but you never know 'til you try.

well you can eat sweetmeat of course, question is if they'd taste the same as yours...

220 hours... that's like only 1½ months (40h/week which is standard around here). Seems bit low to me, or the project is very small?

hmm, seems noone reads the bit about it being a conversion of existing code and a reskin. The Easter Bonus reskin took around 150 hours + 25 hours marketing.

I believe in you Grey. You've got that dedication to a job that's needed to finish stuff. Plus you've been freelancing for 9 years(maybe longer) so I accept that you know how long it takes you to code stuff.

If you code like a nutter I don't see why you couldn't keep to your timeframe for this game. If you're reusing code also then it definately seems doable.

Good Luck. :)

Thanks Amon, glad you have faith in me. I got faith in me too! It's needed as well to make sure I hit the target :-) However, we are flexible to a certain extent if we decide last minute new cool stuff should go in.

Good luck Matey! Working on my next project too! Race ya! :P

> Or is the 220 hours thing just what you told the missus? :o>

Make that 210 hours, you gotta allow at least 10 hours minimum of that time for forum posting duties.

yeah forum posting is a BIG timer eater :-)

Aymes: Thanks. Re: Race, OK, but I've now idea what your next project is, you could be done next week or next year ;-p

hehehe, just kidding really, I wouldnt want you to rush!

I think I'll be done by the end of May at my current pace...but it is a 4 day weekend coming up :D

Yeah I work on holidas, you have to if you are self-employed and not yet rich ...