Torque Game Builder
Miscellaneous Forums/General Discussion/Torque Game Builder
Has any one tried this out?
http://www.garagegames.com/products/torque/tgb/It seems pretty powerful and the indie version is pretty cheap.
**EDIT**
Just to be clear I am talking about the Torque Game Builder, not the Torque Game Engine.
You MUST be new here... ;)
I think more than a few people here have tried it. I don't remember all that much of C or C++ so I really don't fly with it. I do think the general opinion is BMAX is probably easier and less strict in terms of HOW you do something. but you have to figure out HOW you want it done...
I leave the floor for the other pundits!
I'm not too new to the forums here, over 2 years I think? But I haven't seen anyone talk about it. It's only $100 so I might just give it a go over spring break.
But I haven't seen anyone talk about it.
LOL, then you must of have not been paying attention. There's a torque thread here every month. For the most part, nearly everyone here has tried it, don't like it, and tried it again and still don't like it for whatever reasons. However, there are a couple of folks here who absolutely love it....you should hear from them soon....lol...
Never tried it or heard of it. I don't pay attention to the Torque threads since it's always the same crap repeated over and over while the posters behave like parrots with trained 'responses.' Don't they get tired of repeating themselves?
Why don't we attempt to force them to try talking about something else? Like Cipher, Truevision 3D (actually, that's gotten enough attention for one month, I think), Genesis 3D (I hate it, but at least it's not Torque), and other engines.
Genesis 3D (I hate it, but at least it's not Torque)
LOL
The problem I have with the Torque products is that I licensed TrueVision3D and don't use them.
I'm working with it right now because I began using BMax. However, then I thought about the fact ... that what if I want this ported to some other platform ... like Xbox 360 ... or anything else? Yeah ... even if BlitzMax is cross platform you still need Mark to do something for you. If it comes down to it ... you just don't have the same freedom. BMax is like C-- if you know what I mean. Many of the hassles none of the real benefits. TGB on the other hand ... has all the benefits of BASIC ... and then if you need it all the benefits of C++ too.
TGB (T2D) is easier to use than BlitzMax and it includes all the editors you need to create tile maps, particles, and GUI's. So far my experience is that TGB is very nice. Initially it was a little rough but they're really coming along with it.
A few years ago I would have said Blitz was better than anything ... but now the sad truth is that game making tools are moving on. If you're doing a 2D game ... there's no reason I can see to use something like BMax over TGB. TGB isn't as restrictive as TGE (appears to be to a beginner) ... it's much like Blitz in that you go in type your code and poof it works. You don't actually need to use C++ either. The script code is every bit the equal to using Blitz for most intents and purposes.
Heck, I was still using the latest version of T2D as I waited for TGB too. I bet it's going to be on a whole new level now as it includes many new workflow enhancing features.
I thought about the fact ... that what if I want this ported to some other platform ... like Xbox 360 ... or anything else?
If you make a game good enough to get anyone at Microsofts attention, porting it is going to be the least of your worries.
You've got to have that goal in mind though from the beginning. I have to say that porting would be a big worry.. Why should you have to pay someone to port what you've done when you could just have it on one platform that goes there already? No reason to code the game twice.
Sounds good.
But I cannot find any demo of the product.
Just a shooter and fish game demo.
For the price garage games are going to charge for 360 you could pay someone to port your non torque game for you. Jay Moore recently said they were putting the price up from $10,000 to $25,000 per indie game on 360.
Yep. $25,000 is in the range of indies...
If your doing 3D there are better open source engines out there for creating games that are pretty portable engines that are pretty portable and may have C# versions that would be compatible with the new indie 360 SDK, and some portable handheld devices.
For 2D games I don't know of any real alternatives, but I havent really been looking on that front.
With the 360 games you also need about $10,000 for QA testing and what have you, allthough currently MS do offer to loan up front against royalties if they like your game. But it does look like you will need somewhere in the region of $40,000 to develop a single 360 game torque.
I really think you need a good proven game selling on the usual PC and mac platforms that prove the products worth, before your going to get the go ahead from MS. So its a real long and expensive rout for someone without experience.
About the demo...
indeed you can't actually get a demo of the engine and see what it is like to use.
If one had been available I would not have ended up buying the product.
From the advertising it isn't quite clear what you are actually buying...is it a programming enviroment or a 'klick and play' type game builder?
I thought that it was more the latter so bought it, but instead it turns out to be much like programming except you haven't got a dedicated IDE you use notepad or similar to write scripts.
It is still a bit rough around the edges so I have put it out of the way for the time being...I didn't realise it was at such an early stage still.
It does show alot of promise though,scrolling is very smooth and collision detection works fine...definitely one to watch for the future.
You think it's going to cost less than $10,000 to port a game? All depending on the game ... I seriously doubt it. Then ... why have to develop and test the game developed with another platform when there's a proven one in existence.
Daniel,
I think the 2 questions you MUST ask yourself with all of these wonderous programming environments (including Blitz products) are (obvious but) as follows:
(1) Can I programme it or learn to programme it?
(2) Can I develop or get my hands on great looking content for it which I will be able to implement easily?
This process will solve many issues. Have you noticed every game engine touts itself as being easy to learn, and then they do their level best to hide all material relating to how to actually programme using the language. Then they show some really nice looking screen shots of stuff which is done in their products, but what you need to remember is that graphics of this nature tend to look the same in all similar game development environments. It is what YOU do with it that makes it special, different, great instead of average.
Don't be fooled into being distracted from your main journey - which is possibly to make the best games you can in an enjoyable way. Otherwise you will end up spending half your 'programming time' / life looking at alternatives when you could have completed you game in the language you are curently using.
Just my take on it all - now where's that link to Garage Games - lol! (just kidding btw).
IPete2.
Don't be fooled into being distracted from your main journey - which is possibly to make the best games you can in an enjoyable way. Otherwise you will end up spending half your 'programming time' / life looking at alternatives when you could have completed you game in the language you are curently using.
I think that's where I am now. Good advice as usual Pete.
When will I learn to focus? *sigh*
I'd be tempted to swap my BlitzMax and MaxGUI module for TGB.
Nothing wrong with Max, I just feel like a change...
A few years ago I would have said Blitz was better than anything ... but now the sad truth is that game making tools are moving on. If you're doing a 2D game ... there's no reason I can see to use something like BMax over TGB. TGB isn't as restrictive as TGE (appears to be to a beginner) ... it's much like Blitz in that you go in type your code and poof it works. You don't actually need to use C++ either. The script code is every bit the equal to using Blitz for most intents and purposes.
Nah, nothing beats blitzmax + ogremax + ode. All the power and ease of basic combined with all the freedom and expression of C++.
Torque is the tool of the devil. BURN IT.
LOL... this has been good... :)
IPete... that was really good advice... very insightful...
as for the rest of you'se guyz... including my man Ant :)
the only real difference between Torque and Blitz is...
Torque is an already built game engine, Blitz is a programming language... as long as you want to do things the way Torque does it, then you will never need to touch the engine code... otherwise, god help you :)
because Torque is already a built up game engine, you won't have to code all the cool stuff, like networking, sun, clouds, rain, gravity effects, flares, etc...
i heard something about art paths, and all that, but because my artwork is far below that of most people here, that is really no concern of mine...
it's not the devil... it doesn't cost a gazillion dollars to license... it is kinda overwhelming to learn, but the books are out there now (at least 2 of em)...
but like IP said... you're gonna wind up wasting a lot of time switching back and forth... unless, this is a hobby and you don't mind wasting time... but the same thing is gonna happen to you a few months down the road, when you reach the same point of frustration developing your game in TGE, and you will...
the bottom line... if you already have Blitz, and you already know Blitz... and you have a sound game idea, that you've already started it in Blitz... then go ahead and finish it in Blitz...
if not, then why not take a look at Torque...
--Mike
I don't think that T2D engine compiles... I have seen reference to TorqueScript... hmmm... I hope you can at least encrypt that.
the script compiles when you run it... when you release your game, you simply remove the script, the cs files, and leave the .dso, the compiled version of the files... if the engine doesn't see the script version, it'll simply run the compiled code...
this is what the 3D version ofTorque does... and not having any working experience with the 2D engine, i can only assume (from what i've read and discussed on the forum) that this is also what the 2D version does...
TorqueScript
Full TorqueScript Support
TorqueScript is an easy to use C++ like scripting language that ties all of the various elements of your game together. It supports a large complement of functions including math, object manipulation, fileIO, and more. Compile on-demand with the integrated script compiler. Most of your game can be programmed in TorqueScript, with engine additions such as physics or intense AI coded in C++ to be called from script.
i'll be honest with you... as much as i like Blitz3D, if BMax3D is out in a solid timeframe, i'm gonna wind up getting a license, and porting the code and artwork over to the ToqueShaderEngine for the next release...
--Mike
But it does look like you will need somewhere in the region of $40,000 to develop a single 360 game torque.
In a recent interview Greg Canessa, creator of Live Arcade, said the lowest development cost of any of the games on the 360 so far is $100,000. If you want a game on the 360 you'll probably need some investors.
I use both Torque 2D Game builder and bmax.
In T2D, no c++ required at all, you can do pretty much any types of game in script.
T2D is a bit tougher to get started with imho, you have to get used to someone else's vision of what a 2d engine should be and a non standard scripting engine.
It would be leaps and bounds better if they had decent documentation.
Alot has changed syntax wise since the early adopter release and their source code repository reflects that.
They're working on it but still be prepared to have a few hair pulling sessions. lol
Overall, i like T2D alot and i hope in the future they put in more time on the docs/tutorials.
Now for BMax, the skies the limit, you make it do whatever you want it to. A bit lower level but once you have your classes going and tools built up, you're in buisiness!!
but once you have your classes going and tools built up, you're in buisiness!!
exactly...
just what i said above... Torque already has the classes and tools... it's an in place game engine... using Blitz, you will have to build your engine and assemble your tools first...
--Mike
Jeremy don't know if you saw this:
Jay Moore
Employee Posted: Mar 08, 2006 00:38
The response to Marble Blast Ultra has given GG new insight into the value that a quality game engine can deliver on the 360. We're going to continue to offer the extremely low price of $10k per title while TSE Xbox 360 is in beta, but after seeing the revenue potential on XBLA we're clear that the value proposition after completion is much higher. After we are out of beta (projected to happen in late summer / early fall) the XBLA price will be $25,000 which is well in line with the budgets and resources that are required to make XBLA games.
Were talking about 2D games really, but there will be quite a few engines that will run on 360. Especialy when the C#360 SDK comes out. THere's already an OgreDotNtet thats written in C#
Well, if there are cheaper proven platforms available in the future then I will examine those of course. Currently, the Torque platforms are very appealing but there's always something new on the horizon and I'm willing to acknowledge when a certain platform has run its course for me personally.
lololololololol! this is the funniest thread evar!