Does anyone agree that nowadays there are a lot of people selling stuff which isn't, in and of itself, a standalone product/game/application? Talking about texture packs, model packs, pre-made art, tunes, game engines, menu systems, etc. Is nobody actually working entirely on something by themselves anymore? Have we now turned into a culture of off-the-shelf development? Is anyone ACTUALLY making an end-product or are we all scratching each other's backs with a whole bunch of "use it to get where you're going, but you'll never really get there" products? Are these things all just a delaying tactic to avoid making a full finished game or application? And why are all these items so overhyped, for what you get?
Spinning our wheels?
Miscellaneous Forums/General Discussion/Spinning our wheels? I think it's a natural result of the progression in the video game industry. 20 years ago, it was much easier for a single programmer to cobble up something that could rival the top commercial games graphically, soundwise, etc. When the standard is 320x200 low-res in 4 colors, there's very little difference between 'great' graphics and 'ok' graphics, so most people could do just fine on their own.
Now, 20 years later, expecations are much higher: near photo realistic 3D graphics, digital 3D sound, etc. There's a lot of very advanced, very specialistic work that's seen in many of the current generation of games, and that's what people are used to seeing. Those kind of expectations are hard to meet by a single independent programmer: not quite the thing you can cobble together all by yourself.
Sure, there's always exceptions and there's plenty of indie's that can make a fun and compelling game by themselves, but there's definitely a lot of people who may be a great at programming, but can't do hi-res true-color graphics if their life depended on it. Those are the programmers and such that these engines, media packs, etc. are aimed at. There's a demand, and therefore a supply as well.
Now, 20 years later, expecations are much higher: near photo realistic 3D graphics, digital 3D sound, etc. There's a lot of very advanced, very specialistic work that's seen in many of the current generation of games, and that's what people are used to seeing. Those kind of expectations are hard to meet by a single independent programmer: not quite the thing you can cobble together all by yourself.
Sure, there's always exceptions and there's plenty of indie's that can make a fun and compelling game by themselves, but there's definitely a lot of people who may be a great at programming, but can't do hi-res true-color graphics if their life depended on it. Those are the programmers and such that these engines, media packs, etc. are aimed at. There's a demand, and therefore a supply as well.
nuff said.
And why are all these items to overhyped, for what you get?
It's called advertising. Ever noticed how companies/people that want to make money never say "if you really can't find anything else to fit your needs, maybe give us a shot" -- everyone claims they are the greatest thing since sliced bread. Some will live up to it, many won't. Do you take TV commercials for laundry detergent at face value? If not, why would advertisements for computer media or programs be any different?
i licensed a few indie products... Pacemaker being the latest... it was neither over hyped, nor do i feel that it was the result a delaying tactic...
but i see the point you are putting forth, and maybe there's a lil validity in what you say... it takes an obsessed, crazy person, like myself, to wake up day after day and pound the keys trying to finish off a full game... why would anyone submit themselves through this sort of torture when they can get a sleep while standing job at the local burger joint or electonics outlet...
--Mike
but i see the point you are putting forth, and maybe there's a lil validity in what you say... it takes an obsessed, crazy person, like myself, to wake up day after day and pound the keys trying to finish off a full game... why would anyone submit themselves through this sort of torture when they can get a sleep while standing job at the local burger joint or electonics outlet...
--Mike
I think I said the same thing a while ago about people making GUIs and then very little of them ending up in finished products.
In a gold rush, the only person who makes any money is the guy selling picks and shovels. :P
yeah, until the place is flooded with pick/shovel sellers.
I haven't seen very many well-made picks or high-quality shovels.
> In a gold rush, the only person who makes any money is the guy selling picks and shovels
The guy with the booze and other vices for sale usually did pretty good too...
The guy with the booze and other vices for sale usually did pretty good too...
so what is the equivalent of booze and vices in these type of forums, shoot em up games? MMORPGS?
> so what is the equivalent of booze and vices in these type of forums, shoot em up games? MMORPGS?
Anything that would keep a coder from doing some coding I would guess.
Anything that would keep a coder from doing some coding I would guess.
Anything that would keep a coder from doing some coding I would guess.
Currently, that would seem to be Oblivion, then - the whore! :P or this forum. We are all siners, let us be cleansed, unplug your modem/router.
or this forum. We are all siners, let us be cleansed, unplug your modem/router.
OK. You first. :P lol, nah ... I can't ... 'snot possible ...
I sell Dreams!
well ok, not dreams, they're games, but i like to call them dreams...
well ok, not dreams, they're games, but i like to call them dreams...
'siners'? 'cosiners', maybe... or tangents.
I hope I'm a cosiner and not a siner - I'm scared of heights. :)
Note to self: stop making uber-geeky 'jokes' on internet forums that no-one is likely to get or think is funny, anyway. :P
Note to self: stop making uber-geeky 'jokes' on internet forums that no-one is likely to get or think is funny, anyway. :P
Aymes: you wouldn't want to sell my dreams, oh no siree.
All industries use off the shelf components.
There are 1000 companies selling components for every company selling cars (growing up in Detroit, I can tell you that a huge chunk of the auto industry is done by supplier companies than manufacture parts for the big auto companies). The stereo equipment comes from one company, the microcontroller that controls the engine comes from another company, the tires come from another company... And there are all sorts of standard off the shelf pieces of equipment, like nuts and bolts, fasteners, air filters, spark plugs that are used in multiple brands/models of cars.
If a car trully had to be created from scratch, it would cost a million dollars. If every time they made a movie, they had to re-invent movie cameras, editing machines, special effects software, movies would cost far more than they do nowadays.
It is really unnatural that most people in the games industry would be making games. Game developers often think that everything should be developed from scratch, but really if the game industry is an industry like any other industry, than for every development company there should be a whole slew of companies supplying game components.
There are 1000 companies selling components for every company selling cars (growing up in Detroit, I can tell you that a huge chunk of the auto industry is done by supplier companies than manufacture parts for the big auto companies). The stereo equipment comes from one company, the microcontroller that controls the engine comes from another company, the tires come from another company... And there are all sorts of standard off the shelf pieces of equipment, like nuts and bolts, fasteners, air filters, spark plugs that are used in multiple brands/models of cars.
If a car trully had to be created from scratch, it would cost a million dollars. If every time they made a movie, they had to re-invent movie cameras, editing machines, special effects software, movies would cost far more than they do nowadays.
It is really unnatural that most people in the games industry would be making games. Game developers often think that everything should be developed from scratch, but really if the game industry is an industry like any other industry, than for every development company there should be a whole slew of companies supplying game components.
All my modules, that I'm not selling yet have been used in my own games - heck that's why I developed the dang things.
ya know... you guys are scaring me... i'm one of those crazies who is committed to getting this game done and selling... like yesterday... if i don't, i'm gonna be out on the streets looking for handouts...
i hope that i'm not just spinning my wheels... else it's my last gasp of air...
[also hoping that i don't run into any coding brick walls :) ]
--Mike
i hope that i'm not just spinning my wheels... else it's my last gasp of air...
[also hoping that i don't run into any coding brick walls :) ]
--Mike
Okay, well...
Seeing as in my methodology cerebral-flow-chart for making a game goes, I start by making a level editor toolset, so I can make the levels for the game much quicker and easier. Now if that toolset is of marketable value and maybe used by another programmer to make something useful, then why not go for it? I 'do' intend to finish the projects I start, but time constraints mean there's a helluva long wait between toolset-thingy release and game release.
Bseides, this is all academic for me as none of my output is actually marketable, but I can see where it comes from.
Seeing as in my methodology cerebral-flow-chart for making a game goes, I start by making a level editor toolset, so I can make the levels for the game much quicker and easier. Now if that toolset is of marketable value and maybe used by another programmer to make something useful, then why not go for it? I 'do' intend to finish the projects I start, but time constraints mean there's a helluva long wait between toolset-thingy release and game release.
Bseides, this is all academic for me as none of my output is actually marketable, but I can see where it comes from.