Why I think adding mouse control can ruin gameplay

Well, I've played a few recent shmups lately, and reflexive tends to put some good shooters on there. My main issue with new shmups is just how easy (and boring) shmups can be with mouse control. Maybe I'm one of those rare peeps that can pwn a game with a mouse as opposed to keyboard and gamepads (even though I grew up on keyboard and gamepads). BUT, I've found games to be almost 300% easier with the mouse (take Absolute Blue for instance)

In Absolute Blue, it is very challenging and adrenaline-rushing in the NORMAL difficulty level to play with a gamepad. If I play Absolute Blue with a mouse, I am so capable of dodging everything and flying around obstacles that I beat the game in a few hours in the HARDEST difficulty level. Even with 9+ lives remaining!!! My take is that mouse-control can completely ruin a game, and cause it to be way too easy.

However, with the casual market being completely handicapped to the mouse (in majority anyways) I've put mouse control in my game. Here's my take on it: Instead of building the game around keyboard/gamepad controls, I will build the game around the mouse. Thus, the game will be challenging WITH the mouse, but even more challenging (and insane) with gamepad and keyboard (atleast for me)

Does anyone else notice that the mouse can make a game TOO easy? It even makes games boring!!! I played "Turtle Bay" with the mouse and it was SO boring that I almost uninstalled it. But then I used gamepad isntead (the game got a LOT harder, and FUN!!!) Again, the mouse made my turtle capable of spinning or flipping on a dime (with easy control) where the gamepad or keyboard I actually TURNED (remindimg me of the good ole SNES days)

GEO Wars would probably be way too easy with a mouse (sidelining a little) so I would recommend Wiebo not to add mouse despite what some peeps say.

Crimsonland is a game that was designed FOR the mouse, you can tell because how challenging it is WITH the mouse. Even so, I managed to get to it's last episode (halfway through) in a few hours. I really wish the casual market was more challenging.

Mouse control poorly implemented will ruin a game. If you are not prepared to make the game play properly with the mouse then remove it and leave it out.

I agree that mouse control in a shoot'em up basically ruins the game and makes it too easy. The only control method for a shoot'em up should be a gamepad or the cursor keys plus other buttons combination.

Using the mouse allows the player to basically jump all over the screen in a totally unnatural fashion to get out of any trouble. Had there been an actual pilot in those space craft he would have suffered a blackout within minutes of starting the battle!

The gamepad approach means that you need to anticipate what's going to happen, and who's going to fire from where. There's nothing like that feeling when you've just noticed an enemy missle up your ass and there's nothing you can do about it, except it doesn't take out all of what's left of your shield! With a mouse, a quick flick of the wrist sees you fighting on. Not fun, in my opinion.

Of course, the fact is that mouse control is just about essential in ALL downloadable games these days, as the public expect it - even if the genre doesn't suit it. Whether that's the case or not, I generally don't include mouse control in my games if it doesn't suit. There's no mouse control for the main game in any of my games with the exception of Othello (for obvious reasons). How am I supposed to include mouse control in a Boulderdash/Repton type game? Not easy, but I did consider it, but abandoned it as this would make the game virtually unplayable.

As for shoot'em ups (or maybe other game types too), my suggestion should you wish to include mouse support, would be to simply limit the amount of movement that can be applied to the ship. The only problem with this is that players will then be expecting to perform miracle movements and be disappointed and put-off a purchase when they can't.

I would say go with one method or the other, not both. Design it around keyboard/gamepad controls OR the mouse, or adjust the gameplay according to which control device the player is using (not easy).

I'm a shoot'em fan and struggle to find any up to date decent games because they're all mouse controlled or incredibly hard via a gamepad (for the reasons stated by Matt). If I'm expected to use the mouse to gain any real enjoyment from a game, then I simply look elsewhere.

Easy fix: use a non-optical mouse, and you'll be cursing at it for hours on end. ;-)

Personally, I am a keyboarder myself. I tend to overshoot things with the mouse, and am absolutely horrible with two-handed controls (mouse/joystick and keyboard simultaneously) Keyboard-only gets me by without too many problems, even in games like Descent 3.

For shoot-em-ups, I'd have to say the same as Jazzie, only way I can see to make mouse control usable is to have the ship move "towards" the pointer with the same speed constraits gamepad users have to suffer with.

Exactly. You don't put the ship under direct control. You generate virtual joypad commands based on the mouse location. The game should play identically with the same limitations etc.

Press ENTER to switch control mode.

Graphics 640, 480, 0, 2
SetBuffer BackBuffer()
SeedRnd MilliSecs()

px# = 50
py# = 220
tpx# = 0
tpy# = 0

Type missile
	Field x, y
End Type

Type asteroid
	Field x#, y, w, h, s#, l
End Type

While Not KeyDown(1)
	
	Cls
	
	Select control
		Case 0
			Text 0, 0, "Standard keyboard control"
			If KeyDown(200) Then py = py - 3
			If KeyDown(208) Then py = py + 3
			If KeyDown(203) Then px = px - 3
			If KeyDown(205) Then px = px + 3
			If KeyDown(57) And dly < MilliSecs() Then fire = True: dly = MilliSecs() + 200: mx = px + 70: my = py + 15
		Case 1
			Text 0, 0, "Standard mouse control"
			px = MouseX() - 35
			py = MouseY() - 20
			If MouseDown(1) And dly < MilliSecs() Then fire = True: dly = MilliSecs() + 200: mx = px + 70: my = py + 15
		Case 2
			Text 0, 0, "Normalized mouse control"
			tpx = MouseX() - 35
			tpy = MouseY() - 20
			d# = Sqr((tpx-px)^2+(tpy-py)^2)
			If d > 3 Then
				px = px+Float(tpx-px)/d*3.0
				py = py+Float(tpy-py)/d*3.0
			Else
				px = tpx
				py = tpy
			End If
			If MouseDown(1) And dly < MilliSecs() Then fire = True: dly = MilliSecs() + 200: mx = px + 70: my = py + 15
		Case 3
			Text 0, 0, "Normalized keyboard control"
			tpx = px + (KeyDown(205)-KeyDown(203))*3
			tpy = py + (KeyDown(208)-KeyDown(200))*3
			d# = Sqr((tpx-px)^2+(tpy-py)^2)
			If d > 3 Then
				px = px+Float(tpx-px)/d*3.0
				py = py+Float(tpy-py)/d*3.0
			Else
				px = tpx
				py = tpy
			End If
			If KeyDown(57) And dly < MilliSecs() Then fire = True: dly = MilliSecs() + 200: mx = px + 70: my = py + 15
	End Select

	If KeyHit(28) Then
		control = (control + 1) Mod 4
	End If
	
	If fire Then
		m.missile = New missile
		m\x = mx
		m\y = my
		fire = False
	End If
	For m = Each missile
		m\x = m\x + 7
		Rect m\x, m\y, 25, 10
		If m\x > 640 Then
			Delete m
		End If
	Next
	If newast < MilliSecs() Then
		newast = MilliSecs() + 350
		a.asteroid = New asteroid
		a\x = 640
		a\w = Rand(15, 75)
		a\h = Rand(15, 75)
		a\y = Rand(0, 480 - a\h)
		a\s = Rnd(1.5, 5)
		a\l = 1 + Float(a\w*a\h)/1000.0
	End If
	For a = Each asteroid
		a\x = a\x - a\s
		Rect a\x, a\y, a\w, a\h
		For m = Each missile
			If RectsOverlap(m\x, m\y, 25, 10, a\x, a\y, a\w, a\h) Then
				a\l = a\l - 1
				Oval m\x, m\y - 12, 25, 25
				Delete m
				If a\l <= 0 Then
					Oval a\x - a\w, a\y - a\h, a\w*3, a\h*3
					Delete a
					Exit
				End If
			End If
		Next
		If a <> Null Then
			If a\x <= -a\w Then
				Delete a
			End If
		End If
	Next
			
	Rect px, py, 70, 40
	
	Flip
	
Wend

good idea. I think sswift should take note of this for his Space Beetles game.

Grey:
You're the only one here who seems to care about Space Beetles. I guess the graphics aren't flashy enough or something. It ain't the mouse control that's for sure. :-)

Doesn't bode well for sales. And the artist working on Ice Cream Showdown has pretty much stopped work on it. I don't know if he will decide to continue or not, so I might be back to square one with that. So frustrating! ICS, unlike AotASB, was quite popular among folks here, so I had high hopes for it. Now I don't know when it will get completed.

sswift, do you have a link to all of your work? :) Thanks!

What do you mean a link to all my work? Everything I've ever done? No.

offtopic: sswift. Sorry to hear abour Ice Cream showdown, be positive, you'll sort something out! Or maye it ws never meant to be anyway?