TrueVision3D ??

I haven't had much time for coding lately but i managed to learn a thing or two about shaders and stuff. I actually made an example of a shader in ColdSteel recently, but since i realised that if i can learn shaders why not go for something like TrueVision3d? The time seems right. The 6.5 looks like it will have everything we want BMax3d to have.

My question is, knowing very little C++ (i know basic syntax, structs, pointers,blabla) would i be better off learning Visual Basic 6 for TrueVision or should i go for C++? Are there any advantages/disadvantages to using either language with TrueVision? I've never even looked at what Visual Basic looks like but I assume it's easier, and looking at some examples for TV3D 6.2 confirms this.

Anyone?

TV is pretty easy to program for.
Delphi was a breeze to setup, c++ was ok but a bit tougher overall. VB drove me nuts, if you like commands like:

myscene.setupMyScenGraphAndMakeSureEverythingIsInIT
type of programming then VB will fit you well.
It's not like that in c++ or Delphi

The above command does not exist but the lenght of methods and procedures sure do.

Also remember that TV is a DLL, you can't just copy an exe on a system with all the files in one dir and hope it'll work like in blitz, you need to register the dll.

And the joys that comes with Dlls, implicit explicit calling in a loop can cause performance hits...etc.

It's a powerfull engine, easy to use..etc
It all comes down to what you're comfertable with.

I'm into BMax at the moment and having loads of fun.
Suits all my 2D needs and OpenGL my 3D needs.
So for me, i don't mind waiting for the 3D module.

my 2 cents
oh forgot to mention, i'm heavily biased towards Blitzmax. lol

TV is awesome. It was uber-awesome with C#.

Mhm, so you'd say VB isn't considerably easier to use with TV, and it's just a matter of taste?

In that case i'd say i would go for c++, unless i misunderstood. C# sounds even better really.

oh and, im biased towards blitzmax too but i just want to get 3d things on the screen. And i want it this week. Hopefully they will release 6.5 soon enough.

ot: is it possible to use tv with blitz3d?

Keep in mind, the above is what feels right to me.

Best thing is to give TV 6.2 a test drive and see what feels right for you. 6.5 is not that much different syntax wise if you decide to make the jump and purchase aferwards.

ps: C# was fun to use as well, easier than c++ imo.
I would definitly concentrate on either Delphi or C# before c++ or vb6/vb.net for TV/

edit:

You could write a wrapper and use TV with Bmax if you wanted.

skyfire, you could probably use it but looking at the VB examples i downloaded with the 6.2 SDK it looks like it's very easy to use, nearly like blitz3d to be honest. I've been looking for some c++ introductions but i cant find anything and i'm impressed with how easy VB looks so i'll give it a go with VB first.

VB example:

VERSION 5.00
Begin VB.Form Form1 
   BorderStyle     =   1  'Fixed Single
   Caption         =   "' Tutorial 17 : Space Simulation ( use arrow keys)"
   ClientHeight    =   7260
   ClientLeft      =   45
   ClientTop       =   330
   ClientWidth     =   7740
   LinkTopic       =   "Form1"
   MaxButton       =   0   'False
   MinButton       =   0   'False
   ScaleHeight     =   7260
   ScaleWidth      =   7740
   StartUpPosition =   2  'CenterScreen
End
Attribute VB_Name = "Form1"
Attribute VB_GlobalNameSpace = False
Attribute VB_Creatable = False
Attribute VB_PredeclaredId = True
Attribute VB_Exposed = False
' ________________________________________________________________________
' TRUEVISION8                        (web: <a href="http://www.truevision3d.com)" target="_blank">http://www.truevision3d.com)</a>
' ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
' Tutorial 17 : Space Sim.
' ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
' Description : In this 17th tutorial, we are going to show you how to get
' ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯   the full control of the positions and angles of a mesh.
'               Because this project is a bit complex, we are introducing
'               modules to the project.
'
' Contributor : The God Sylvain
' ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

' Force explicit declarations
Option Explicit

' The loop.
Private DoLoop As Boolean

Private Sub Form_Load()

    ' We init the game (create the objects)
    Globals_Init

    ' We load the textures
    Globals_Textures

    ' We set the textures and global things like the sun
    Globals_Set
    
    ' We init the ship
    Ship_Init

    ' We set the camera
    Camera_Init

    ' We pop the form over everything else.
    Form1.Show
        
    ' We start the main loop.
    DoLoop = True
    Main_Loop

End Sub

Private Sub Form_Unload(Cancel As Integer)

    ' The user asked to quit but clicked on the 'X' button at up right.
    DoLoop = False
    
    ' And ask to quit.
    Main_Quit

End Sub

Private Sub Main_Loop()

    ' The main loop
    Do
        ' Let us the capacity to use buttons of the form.
        DoEvents
        
        ' Check input
        Check_Input
        
        ' Check/Update movement of the ship
        Check_Movement
        
        ' Update the camera
        Update_Camera

        ' Render the scene
        TV8.Clear
         Atmos.Atmosphere_Render
        
        Scene.RenderAllMeshes
        Particle.ParticleSize = 64
        Particle.RenderParticles ' New : we have to render the Particle
   
        TV8.RenderToScreen
    
    'We loop all of this until the DoLoop isn't True.
    Loop Until DoLoop = False
    
    ' We ask to quit.
    Main_Quit

End Sub

Private Sub Main_Quit()
        
    ' Destroy all the objects used
    Globals_Destroy
    
    ' We end the application.
    End

End Sub

Heh, i guess this is becoming my "I'm migrating" thread.

No not really, but i like to fiddle and learn new things. If i learn enough before bmax3d comes out and i want to start up a serious project then i'll migrate fully but thats a long time off.

That's all the time i have for fun today, but i hope to finish the shadow system soon.

I moved to it, best decision I ever made. TV 6.5 is easily the coolest engine I've ever used. Heck, it even works in Python.

wow, the visual basic example looks very easy to understand. but what visual basic compiler should i get?

Someone started a wrapper. Can't remember who but it was a member of the French Community. Not sure if it was just a DECLS or it a full C++ wrapper was required. I'm also unclear just how much you could access. But evidently someone thought it was possible.

vb is the easiest way to go with TV3D... i think...

but if you're comfortable with your c compiler, the api isn't much more difficult using c++ or c#...

the neat thing is that you have your choice...

and yeah, the eyecandy looks really good... actually, great...

just need a few more docs and a public release...

--Mike

ok. what visual basic compiler should you use then? please note that i'm asking for an opinion.

But there must be some speed differece between using c++ vs VB ??

skyfire: there are so many, did you search? My wild guess is you can find the old VB6 at a good price. No clue. The standard edition of newest Visual Studio 2005 costs something like $250, but i know little about it.

Alienforce, it's using the dll(s) for almost everything, i doubt there is serious difference in computational speed of the general programming between VB and c, such as IFs, loops, maths, etc. And communication between the DLL i also think shouldn't be much different between the two languages.

Yes, there is. But most professional programmers ( independent and in the industry ) now consider that game logic is not usually speed-critical enough to do in a different language. Since middleware is now used so heavily for 3d graphics, physics, sound, etc, you already have all the intensive stuff done in a low level language. Creating the game logic is generally done in whichever language gets the job done best and fastest, whether that be the language you know best or the one that fits with the tools or whatever.

I use TV3D 6.2/6.5 with the free VB2005 express.
Works great. No interop when using V6.5 which is VERY nice.

I also hammer out quick tests etc... with VB6 and V6.2 and V6.5.

I like it a lot. V6.5 is fabulous and gets better with every update.

If you are a VB or C# you really need to be looking at Truevision.

Now about my commision Sylvan ... :) (Kidding of course)

Allan

I've a question actually. When I've finished wrapping HGE for BlitzMax ( which is going surprisingly well ) and assuming I feel like a challenge, how feasible would a BMax interface to TV3d 6.2/6.5 be?

TV 6.5 looks very easy create an interface for. I thinks someone on these forums started something a month or two back and roundly slapped down for his efforts and he either stopped or went away. Too bad. TV 6.5 with Blitz+ might be very interesting (small footprint distro with high end 3D is all good) especially for old Non-OOP holdouts like myself.

Have a look at the free (with watermark) V6.2. The media engine is crap so ignore it. The 3D engine is actually very serviceable and more feature rich than B3D. Uggg, that hurt to say as B3D is my first love.

Anyway, check it and share your opinion.

Allan

Ah yes. There's a lot of that going round.



Will do. I have a bit of Xmas money lying around not doing anything. So a one-product commercial TV3D license could fit the bill nicely.

Do what i do. I'm going to test out 6.2 out until i feel ready for 6.5 and then you should probably wait for 6.5 to come out unless a commercial licence with 6.2 is also valid for 6.5??? Can someone confirm?

In that case i'll also get 6.2 commercial licence soon because that grants you the 6.5 beta access and i hear the tools and stuff you can do with 6.5 are really sweet.

Mark, BRL, you guys wanna hurry up with BMax3d?

Yup, buy 6.2 and get V6.5beta. The license transfers and you can distro with 6.5 when it's officially released.

I did and I have not been disaapointed.

Allan

Just talked to a guy on tv3d chat, he says that the 6.2 licence also means you can release a 6.5 product (once its out of beta) and i beleive that really makes sense. So i will finally get to use my dear shaders and make normal mapped characters with HDR in the scene :o oh yes baby

Oh and to note once again, i will still get BMax3d when it comes out but (as before) only if it has the capability to render HLSL or GLSL shaders and doesnt have any silly limits on number of samplers in shaders, textures, cube maps or shader models (up to 3.0), that it can have separate shader files for vertex and pixel shaders, that it has all the matrix and vector sending data as well as custom data types which shaders require. I'm not asking for much am i?

I checked the forum and it's posted there too. The license is for 6.x so all updates in that range are free.

Is the art path any good?

Yes, good for people with commercial packages or
people that use open-source/freeware packages (like me!! :P)
or shareware/whatever!

Fits everyone's artpath. Its fantastic.

if you really like to play with C++ and shaders+normalmapping etc, and all that over PC, Linux, Xbox..then take a look at Kjapi engine...this baby rocks..

Nice find Alien! Linux too! ^-^
This is nice! Verrrrryyy cooool!

Just gotta learn about the artpath. Anyone see where
it has file formats?

I was a beta tester. I wasn't keen on the way it was structured.

..well, I found if very interesting, especially becouse of easy multiplatform usage..I did few small tests on Xbox, and its working fine for me..after pain in ass with Torque (only for Xbox portability), Kjapi is pretty refreshing stuff I'm playing with...and if we talking about speed...its really, really fast..thats my experiance with it anyway...

Argh. Doesn't come with any makefiles.. Time to get out
DevCPP with WINE! :P


90% able to run DevCPP, almosssst therrreeee....

Yea the artpath for 6.5 is next to spectacular. They have two formats one for animated meshes and one for static ones. The one for animated meshes is one of the VERY rare formats that support bones AND morph targets. And with the .fx files for shaders you're guaranteed not to have any problems. You can make your shaders in the very-easy-to-use Nvidia FX Composer (or at least modify them easily, making them takes skill) and apply them to animated models. I've seen it work, simple as that. Jaw dropping.

So you get the Beta of 6.5 if you buy 6.2, right ?????

Yes.

kjapi looks interesting...

I allready have bought TGE/TSE and cipher what would be a good reason to buy TV3D ??

Why don't you just try it and decide? They have a free copy right on the downloads page.

nothing

TV is <surfervoice><ubervibrato>awwwwssssoooommmmmeee</ubervibrato> duuuuuuddddeeeee!!!!!oneone</surfervoice>