So Anythony...

EDIT: Yes, there is a 'y' too much in the topic.

Does this make you mad?

For those of you just joining, Anthony Wells aka. Solid Kojima aka. Ant and a whole host of other aliases has been the most prominent person I've ever met at heralding Hideo Kojima in general and Metal Gear Stupid in particular as the second comming. He's also been a heavy supporter of the notion that some video games (those on the PS3 in particular) are works of art.

You started a thread just to jab at one person? *shakes head*


Incidentally, thanks for the link!

Pff.
You can't say that video games are not art.
That's like saying that drawing on a piece of paper is not art!
Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.

Interesting ... I don't agree with him fully but there is a good point in there.

i have to agree with anthony. hideo kojima is a game designer god.

Does "Anthony" still post here?

Yes, and only when I let him.

I was going to ask that if puki didn't.

Another good headline "Games Grouped with Porn in Utah Bill".

So Flameduck, you felt like this?

I hate to point it out, but there's an extra 'h' there as well.

Yeah, I hate to agree, but I do. Hideo, Ebert, they both have perfectly strong points.

It's now up to future generations of game developers to take
games out of their "silent film" era and turn them into real art.

What is the point of all art in existence? In my opinion, it is
to convey a feeling, idea or story to the viewer.

You could argue that all art is trying to do is reveal to us
the resulting thoughts and feelings an artist has from an
experience he/she had in life.

Agreed?

Now what better way to convey the artist's feelings than
to let a viewer go through that same experience themselves.

Paintings rely of visual aesthetics
Music on Aural aesthetics
Movies on visual storytelling
Novels on the imagination

Games can potentially do all of this just as well as these mediums.

Interactivity is the videogame's strength. In my opinion,
games have not found a way to take advantage of this yet.

Once they do, we will see a "golden age" for video games.

You can quote me on that.

Game are not art. But they will be art.


[edit] And by the way, HD will NOT get us there any quicker! Biggest gimmick evar.

Some games are definitely art ... I'm sorry but when Shigeru Miyamoto created Donkey Kong and Mario etc... he wasn't creating for an audience ... it just so happened to be that a huge audience thought that the content trapped inside that man's imagination was fun. I think that Hideo has been caught creating too many Metal Gear games because they are the only games he's created to become really popular. Every time he tries to break out and do something different and 'artistic' like Boktai or Zone of Enders it doesn't go so well with him and he's forced by Konami or whatever to go and make more Metal Gear games because they sell ... and now he's become a slave to his audience instead of an artist.

No. I also thought it was an interesting position for a person like Kojima to take.

No, but I can see how you might think that, if you hadn't read the article. Golden Axe was a good game by the way, but probably not art.

Dammit.

Which is something I definately agree with. Some games are art, some are just games, some are garbage. Just like movies, music and paintings. Go figure.

I like to say that about all rap and country music.

there are many kinds of art, I put Games in lowly art and mass popular culture. Much like comic books and fantasy art which is largely derided by most in the 'artistic' community.

It's like me and 2D computer graphics. I'd much rather use wet media or make a sculpture than waste a lot of time in a 2D graphics app, which cpmbined with a mouse or tablet costing less than $2000, just does't have the hands on tacttile qualities that make worthwhile.

I don;t consider games art either, but I do enjoy the problem solving and seeing things live and breath in a game. But otherwise games are for entertainment, to be thrown away in a few weeks and rarely looked at again, if ever. A kind of escapism to fill in otherwise dull and boring moments, kind of like the TV.

Probably the one thing that I agree with as far as Kojime (whatever his name) goes.

>I like to say that about all rap and country music.


If you had and everyone else had liked them they wouldn't be art, because you and many others don't like them they are art. Got the point?

So because the 'artistic' community is elitist, games cannot be art? That's a rather weak arguement. There are a lot of people who draw comics that are artists (like Carlos Ezquerra and Frank Miller), and a lot of people who write comics who are artists too (Alan Grant and Stan Lee), and some do both (Will Eisner).

Just because something can be appreciated by more than a select few, does not mean it isn't art. I don't think anyone whose seen (for instance) the frescoes in the Sistine Chapel can disagree that it's art. Because Michelangelo was a genius, not because only high ranking religious officials understand its significance, but because its geniunely awe inspiring.

Games just have more elements that have to come together perfectly, and requires more artists to work in perfect harmony. If Michelangelo had to work on the Sistine Chapel using a team of 100 painters, would it still have had the significance it does today? Probably not. That's the challenge games are faceing.

An example. Programmers can definately look at the DOOM3 (or more recently the 3DMark 2006) engine and see art. I mean a lot of what it does, is masterfully created by incredibly talented people. The fact that it has an average game (or in the case of 3DMark, no game at all) bolted on, doesn't mean that it isn't art.

1. LAME of you to take a dig at Antony Wells. Slagging him off here is a PURE pot, kettle moment!

2. Games can contain beautiful artwork.

3. Games cannot BE an arthouse film as they are participating experiences, however the story can be great. A great story isn't art though, it's a work of literature.

4. Games are getting good enough to take themselves seriously, and the best thing is not to take them too seriously yourselves, have fun, get a life etc.

Nah, he use to set himself up every week with his new annoyingly lame ideas which he never ever follows through with so therefore, it's quite ok to "dig" at him.

Its not Anythony

Games are games, and supposed to be fun. To suggest they are anything else is a kind of elitism in my opinion.

I agree with Evak.. completely!

Art doesnt have to be about paintings/drawings, art can be borne from anything, its the creation process from the mind to a physical object that is, at the end of the day... Art!

I'm a plasterer, I use plaster everyday, to produce flat smooth walls, which is simple enough, but now and again, I've got to make archways, timber effects (wood grain, bolts etc), sometimes, I've got to patch up old cornice/ceiling roses...

And to me, that's art also, because I've pictured a picture in my mind, and converted it to a physical object... Which I hope, people will appreciate!

The same goes for programming, you have a game/application in your head, you draw the GFX,you write the engine, you click the red rocket, and when it's up and running, your over the moon... Then other people play it/use it, and hopefully, enjoy it... So in the same sense... That's art!

Then again, art nowadays is about half cows, messy beds and other pointless pap!!!

Dabz

P.S. I don't like medal gear... Never played/bought another one after I completed 'Sons of liberty' on the same day as I bought it!

Everyone's interpretation of the word 'art' is different, so the whole argument is worthless really...

Aesthetics, people..

Nobody is right about them being art or not until you get God's opinion. And since that's me, you won't be getting my opinion.

Nobody is right about them being art or not until you get God's opinion. And since that's me, you won't be getting my opinion.

really? then why haven't you given me $10 billion dollars yet?

Im ending this thread before it becomes something it should't. Its not because of the topic, but because of the way it was put up for discussion. By all means if you wish to talk about how games are/are not art, then please start a new thread.