igLoader ready to go (finally).

Some key snippits from the website.

"igLoader is a cross browser plugin that allows virtually any windows based software to be delivered and operated within the browser window. igLoader is unique in its implementation and simplicity; igLoader is not based on ActiveX technology and, as such, is compatible with browsers such as Firefox, Opera and Internet Explorer."

"How easy is it to enable my applications?
Simplicity is the key here. Pack the application files into a .igl archive (we provide details on how to do this) and upload to your website. The plugin will download the .igl archive and will extract the files to a unique directory on the client hard disk, keeping your application directory structure intact! You no longer need to pack all files including media into one .exe!"

Want more information? http://www.igloader.com

I welcome all comments and questions. If you have questions about pricing then please contact me via the website as I am not in a position to discuss such matters on a public forum. You may request a quotation here : http://igloader.com/rfq.php

If you are interested in becoming a reference site for igLoader then please contact me via the website - approved reference sites will receive a free customised copy of the loader.

If it's something the user installs, what happens if someone uses it for something nasty and it gets blacklisted by virus scanners?

Hi Micheal,

You mean like Popcap and the retro64 loader used by Miniclip?

Our solution :

A license comes with a key that is unique to each software title. If the key is not present on the server or it does not contain the correct license the plugin will warn the client and shut down immediately.

So.... The nasty software hacker person must first work out where the license file is located, what is contained within the file, what the encryption method is, what the decryption key is and how is the decrypted information relevant.

If a licensed customer uses the product for malicous purposes they will be in breach of the license agreement and we, amongst others will sue thier ass off.

I must also point out that a game delivered by Java or Flash could also do nasty things, and so can reading your email :D

Does it work cross-platform, or is it just Windows?

Windows, obviously.

Just seems odd if it's restricted to Windows...couldn't a mac / linux compiled exe be downloaded by this if you're on another mac / linux? i.e. is it that igLoader only works on Windows, or is it that whatever you include in the igl needs to run on the target platform?

At the moment it will only work with Windows as the Plug uses windows API commands. My framework runs fine on Win, Mac, Linux and OS2 (remember that one), it's the launching of the application and management that are OS specific.

I will release a Mac compatible version in the new year.

so how much is it? I think you should have at least a "price starting from, Blah! Blah!" on the website.

Take a look at www.igloader.com and you will see some prices.

Some of the webbed games from cloverleafgames.com don't work properly on mozilla or IE 6.0. I also noticed a lot of artifacts on ATI cards versus Nvidia ones. It's strange to see cBubble running just fine on an Nvidia TNT2 compared to a GeForce FX 5200 (probably a driver issue).

IMHO not bad for initial release but it needs work especially for enterprise pricing.

Evak - there's basic pricing here:
http://www.igloader.com/t_model.php

Indiepath - 'm really impressed with this loader system, I would definitely like to try using it at some point in the future! I'm curious as to whether it would be possible to pass different data files to the same executable... for instance, making a viewer for 3D models on my homepage by calling 3dviewer.igl?model.b3d, or similar. How difficult would something like this be?

Good luck with this Tim, you've put a lot of effort into it, hope it pays off.

oops, I missed the little click here things links. Looks pretty decent :)

igLoader gets the Hotcakes seal of approval. Their main competitor's software does not work on my machine, whereas Indiepath have put in the effort the get it right in all seen cases.

In short : igLoader will cause you less problems!

Well that's what I'm asking. All of a sudden a large chunk of your user base won't be able to play stuff made with igloader, since it's blacklisted.

What are you going to retrieve from suing the hacker? His beast of a computer? Surely nothing compared to the cost of an international lawsuit, and nothing compared to the cost of your loader breaking.

If a hacker can get someone to download an exe, they're not going to use your loader's installation file - they could just put the malicious code in its place. But what happens with igloader is more widespread, and there are a noticeable amount of people surfing the web with it installed? That's when your problems would start, and that's when you'd have the most to lose.

Hi Michael, I appreciate what you are saying and this does warrant an explanation.


You can not bypass the installation file, it's integral. If a hacker messes with the plugin then they need to get the plugin onto the client machine and then download the files. If the plug has been hacked then it probably won't have a digital signature (big alarm bell), and heck why go to all this trouble when you could just write your own plugin and cause max damage anyway.


This did happen to Popcap and Molebox, the solution was to release an update to the product. Customers have to visit your site to play the games, you automatically serve them the new product then they visit. OBJECT and EMBED tags allow versioning so that's really not an issue.

We've thought long and hard about these issues and that is why we have gone to such trouble to lock the code down and provide unique encrypted keys for each game license. Hacking is not impossible, we're trying out best to make it as difficult as possible. I can assure you that existing game loaders do not employ such security measures.

Can you please be more specific, I have not published any enterprise pricing?

Question: How do you remove a cached game again from your local computer?

Is it the regular browser cache, or does the game file get stored in a different location?

1) clear the browser cache(s)
2) Locate the "Windows\igLoader Files" directory and remove the entries.

I just stuck up another game, this is the insectoids game from the Blitz3d samples folder. This took less then 5 minutes to enable. http://cloverleafgames.com/insectoids.html

Dock, this is not currently a function in the loader, I may well add it today though. You can pass a parameter as an HTML tag, all I need to do is read that tag and pass it to the .exe when it's launched.

It would be something like :

;IE CODE
<PARAM name='commandline' value='mymodel.b3d'/>
;Firefox, Opera Etc
commandline="mymodel.b3d"

NOTE: It would be a function of your application to locate and download the appropriate file. igLoader will only pass the commandline information to the application.

Seems pretty cool to me... I can see the potential for this. Good work Indiepath.

Excellent, that would be great as a functionality.
Another question (I know I'm asking a lot ^^;) is... how difficult would it be for the executable to pass a value back to the browser. I suppose it could be done by launching a new URL in the same browser page ie ttp://whatever.com/newpage.php?code=A2244BFAC2. Is that practical?

Dock, sorry it took so long. The Blitz3d CommandLine$() reads argv[1] rather than argv[0] what a nightmare!

Anyway download the updated loader from http://cloverleafgames.com/igLoader_setup.exe and then go here : http://igloader.com/development/viewer.html

The plugin will now take the "commandline" parameter and pass it to the application, it's then upto the application how it gets the file. In the example the media is downloaded with the viewer so I'm just pulling local stuff.

The media included with the viewer is :-
stealth.3ds
rallycar1.3ds

If you want to see the model in the viewer you need to just change the "commandline" tag and it will be loaded.

Oh and the other question, yes that could be done easiliy. The plugin handles the shutdown of the application so you just need tell the browser to load the new page. Make sure that you load into the same browser window as two or more instances of the plugin will be nasty.

Fantastic! This really is great, I can definitely think of some uses for this. How does it work on a per game basis? How do you limit it to a single game, for example, or is that just part of the license agreement? For example, if I was working on an application I was putting online, could I have a private work in progress version and a live version?

edit: I assume stealth.3ds are on the server, right? They're not bundled with the igloader are they?

double edit: oh, they are. Hmm.. I was really hoping that I could grab them from the server, as then I could include live data for the application to grab as well. hmm.

I license igLoader per game/application - the license I create must be hosted on the same server as your application. The license is unique to that application and can not be used for any other.

The stealth.3ds in that example was not bundled with igLoader it was bundled with the viewer application.

If you are looking to make a media viewing application for your website I can advise you on how to encrypt datastreams so that you can display your media and keep it secure.

For a web-based viewer you would need one license as the application remains the same, it's just the media that changes.

Tim: Maybe you should consider writing the cached files under the user's profile folder instead of inside the windows program folder?

e.g.
%USERPROFILE% ( C:\Documents and Settings\username)

Or alternatively:
%ALLUSERSPROFILE% ( C:\Documents and Settings\All Users )

On many systems a limited access user will not have the necesary permissions to create a subdirectory under C:\Windows, and thereby probably wouldn't be able to run anything through your plugin?
Aside from the permissions deal, I personally feel its a bit questionable for an application to write anything under the windows folder itself that isn't really part the operation system and its associated behaviour... User applications should be part of the user application or profile directories, not the OS.

Pretty sweet I like it!

Oh, what about save files etc.... Can this work just like any standard game?

It looks like it -- the game in question was saved as a stand-alone EXE under c:\windows\igloader, and I was able to launch it all by itself without the browser as well when I came across it. It just ran as a windowed application. Since it apparently launches the game from a local machine, I would guess you can also create new files such as save games?

@xlsior, Good idea about the cached files location, I will change that for All Users.

@ Jeremy, Yes it works like any normal game. You have a game directory structure and you can do what you like with save files etc. Try to forget there is a loader in the equation, if your game can be packaged with an installer then it will work with this.

Radical, I like it!

Okay, time to close some deals! Preferred method of payment? (@grey, don't you dare)

well .... ;-)

Unfortunately I'm not quite ready to buy this, mainly because my plans for its use aren't ready. ^^; Unfortunately with this sort of thing its usually more useful for people who have finished their project.

I'm also a little bit hesitent until I figure out how I could get the player to load/save from the server, and I think that would require a lot of php programming seperate to blitz. I'd have to experiment a bit.

edit: I know I'd use it eventually, but I'm a bit worried about backing myself into a corner with the license. IE nailing it to one project and then decide to use it for something else instead.

You could always save this data locally as you would normally do.

What, if any, is the performance hit of running something through this loader, compared to running it as a standard exe? I assume there is some overhead in embedding it in a browser window?

"You could always save this data locally as you would normally do."

I realise I can have the player save it locally, but the appeal of making something web-based (to me at least) is the ability to access data from any computer I'm at. I'm certain it can be done though.

@fredborg,

The plugin goes into "silent" mode as soon as the game is launched, it no longer updates itself and the drawing routines are ignored. The only overhead is going to be having an instance of the browser running at the same time as the game - which we all do every day and it is negligible.

@Dock, you need indieNET then :D (soon to be released also). Indienet is a .dll that facilitates on-line highscoring, game server setup and updating and provides a simple interface to do SQL queries on a Web-based SQL server. It's secure too.

UPDATE:

- Increased Security
- Customisation of Loading Screen *
- Loading bar now Image(s)
- Pass CommandLine Commands to .exe

*It is now possible to display different images as the files download - use this feature for targetted marketing etc.

I stumbled across some code which loads images over the net. How compatible would this be with Igloader?
http://blitzbasic.com/codearcs/codearcs.php?code=25

Do you think it would be possible to get a simple demo working with igloader that can recieve images from the web and map them on to a spinning cube or similar?

That's nice bit of code :D

Yes, a demo could be possible - what are your thoughts about placing an order if I can demonstrate this is possible?

I can't really see the benefits of running the game in a browser window apart from the couple of clicks saved over traditional download methods and the fact that you can bombard your prospective client with marketing material.
I can understand doing this with games that can only run in a browser but I can't see much benefit of using this system with standard windows games.
In fact if a game could run successfully in a browser It's probably one that I wouldn't want to play anyway - how does it handle full screen games ?

There are many applications for such a tool, Dock's specific application is a good example.

Full screen games are a non-issue.

Remember, this is not just games it's applications as well.

Dock, here's your demo.

**You will need the latest version of the loader : http://igloader.com/download/igLoader_setup.exe

http://igloader.com/development/image_viewer.html

Specify the image to be downloaded with the HTML CommandLine Tags.

little bug report: under IE, I load the viewer, type escape which closes the app. I reload the page, and badaboom, it crashes IE. Actually, from now on it crashes everytime I load the page. I had to reinstall.

@Koriolis, what error message do you get before it crashes?

Indiepath: Sometimes it seems the app doesn't stick to the page, it remains as a window. If I refresh it sticks, but I've had two instances where it hasn't docked properly with your image_viewer example. Any idea why this is?

I'm impressed with igloader, I ordered my copy a couple of hours ago. :)

Hi,
I have had problems when playing your games on your website. After I closed the game, I.E locked up and I had to Cntrl-alt delete to restart.

@Indiepath. It just crashes, and I get the traditional Dr Watson window.

@Dock, If you have lots of windows open, including taskbar stuff and windows within windows like in outlook and thunderbird then it takes time to enumerate all the windows, grab the correct one and do the magic. Naturally the loader has a timeout function, if the window can not be enumerated then it just will remain in it's own window. There is also a flaw with the OS, sometimes windows does not return a correct threadId, thus making it quite difficult to grab that thread and do stuff with it. I will increase the timeout, that should fix your issue.

@Chevron, It sounds like something is not shutting down cleanly. Does the game end? There were some initial problems with the PluginHostControl.dll but these have been rectified and no further problems have been experienced on our test machines.

@Koriolis, I think this is related to the license checking code. Since the application is now cached it appears as if sometimes the applicaton tries to launch before it has been auhorised, hence the plugin shuts down. I'm working on the fix right now.

Fixed, please download the lastest and try again.

Pocket PC games anyone?

Get the new loader first to avoid any issues : http://igloader.com/download/igLoader_setup.exe

Then play the game : http://igloader.com/development/groove.html

where did you get groove from?

speaking of licenses, license is spelled wrong on your site. it says Lisense... should be License.

http://www.igloader.com/lisense.php

heh ;-)

I stole it!

Na, it's a proof of concept for a large publishing company - I will remove it soon.

@Mark, that is intentional

Lisense - Pricing that makes *sense* - Gettit?

I like the idea but I'm in no way prepared to buy it given the currect licencing and pricing structure.

Well done on a nice app, and if you change the way you earn money from it let me know.

@Yavin, please tell me what you would expect? what sort of license structure would suit you? If you can tell me what you want then I am in a better position to help you.

Tim.

Well , for a start information on your site is prity criptic unless you have taken that degree in business studies. and know what your charts are all about.

Most of your customers from this community wont have a clue.

Secondly your price per application structure is whats gona nail your coffin. most of the people here, not all but most, are part time coders, and making games is somthing we do cos we love it, and the money we make from it is in no way our main form of income.

So asking for money per application , per month, or per year for a license is going to prevent a HUGE majority of us from buying it.

I know you may not prefer it, but I would like to buy the plugin, and then not be restricted to how many games I can have using it, possibly restrict it per website so that people cant buy the plugin and then use it on tons of websites, I would be happy with a 1 site per licence limit.

I would very much prefer to just buy the plugin for my website and then be left on my own to use it as i see fit, with whatever applications i see fit, i should not have to pay anything after the initial payment.

asking for subscription or whatever will kill off a lot of your customers, the people who run free websites, who dont sell their games and want your plugin to show off their freeware will not be able to do so, cos they wont be able to pay for it.

How would you feel about giving the loader for free to non commercial application ?, not only would this allow your plugin to become more wide spread over the internet but it would also end up with more sales as more and more people who have products they want to sell will want to use it as well.

Most of the above is off the cuff, so if it makes no sense to you just ignore me. just what I am thinking at the moment.

The license is perpetual, if you want on-going support and upgrade maintenance after the first year then you need to pay for it, as you would with most professional software. The charts and stuff are for the enterprise customers, indies and SMBS can ignore all that.

The price; the majority of the feedback we have recieved suggests the price point is more than reasonable and we should think about increasing the prices.

The usage will remain restricted to per application per site, and indeed per network. An organsiation that wants to serve 50 web apps expects to pay more than an organisation who only wants 1 app. There is also the issue of security, we can not allow *ANY* application to be installed on a client machine, igLoader implements many secure measures and as such each license is unique to each application.

Free sites; free sites attract customers and earn revenues from advertising. igLoader represents a significant opportunity to increase your visitor count by enabling your visitors to play a whole myriad of new browser games - they are no longer reliant on Flash and Java apps - more visitors = more ad revenue.

I will give some thought to a freeware version, if I do release such a version I will still lock it down per application, for security, it will have NAG screens and will not be customisable - infact it will probably be an advertising platform.

I never got my download link :(....

Did you give a real email address? I got a copy of your request.

I'll email you the link directly. {EDIT} emailed

We've decided not to buy Igloader due the pricing and vague licensing model. Looks like a nice tool though.

@Jeroen, that is a shame. If you wish to discuss your concerns I am positive we could work something out.

The "vague" licensing model is actually very simple : you license per game per site, your license is perpetual, you get 12 months of support and maintenance with the license - you want more support and maintenance then you buy more.

I am not prepared to move on pricing; I put igLoader on cloverleaf and covered the license cost in 2 days with additional advertising revenues. Before I had the web-based games the revenues earned from advertising were not worth talking about.

You can view the license Agreement here : http://igloader.com/download/License%20Agreement.pdf

Just to let you know, the updated version crashed on me once I exited the game.

Darkheart

igLoader no longer grabs windows by the window name, it uses a method of tracking the instance and thread info, this is much faster and more reliable, it also means that you do not need to modify your application in any way apart from fixing the windowed resolution. It would be absurd to ask you to modify your application to embed it'self within the plugin wouldn't it.

I have also introduced an encrypted file system to protect your files from being run without the plugin, this feature was developed for a publishing partner who will be delivering subscription games using igLoader - you pay to play.

Now cya, I need beer and it is Xmas eve albiet 11am :D

Hey I thought you'd gone away, don't tell me you found the nearest PC at your destination, naughty ;-) Mind you I took the laptop to cornwall this summer for a weeks holida, it's actually where I got the basic Xmas Bonus engine working.

So wait a sec ... you can only run your game in the loader from one site? That just about completely puts a hold on what I wanted this for. You should be able to distribute your game on as many sites as you want.

@Grey, yeah had to, a customer needed support and I'm playing with my new Mac Mini.

@Jeremy, I am unsure how this affects what you want to do. This does not preclude other sites linking to the files you are hosting. If we use mySpace as an example : You host the file, people/other sites link to your host to download the files. This would require 1 license - IF other sites wanted to host the files, affiliates for example, they would need there own license.

OK, so any number of sites can link to the files on my site though?

Yes :D

will be using this too for some of our demo's and what have you.

Hi Indiepath,

What worries me about this system is that the executables can do whatever they like once they are running. This includes reading/writing any file on the hard drive to which the user has access.

Java applets operate in a sandbox, which prevents them from doing malicious things to your system. I presume the same is true of Flash media.

Any plugin can do this, though. I believe most browsers set the virus scanner on them before booting the first time, but there's really no difference between igLoader and related systems, and a full-on web plugin.

If you haven't recieved a virus from or spyware from opening unsafe emails or clicking on random banner ads, you will not recieve a virus from igLoader.


This doesn't mean that browser plugins are a bad thing! They are the reason why your browser can display so many image and (any) video formats.

@Robert, Java can be destructive. You might also like to note that any software installed on your machine can access any information it wants.

Update :

- Encryption of files to prevent launching without the plugin.
- Versioning now implemented - if you include the version tag in the HTML the loader will check this against the installed application (if any) if they do not match then a new version of the application is installed from the server.
- Option to flag the archive files non protected, the plugin will not try to decrypt the files if this flag is set to "0". If you do not include the protected tag in the HTML the plugin will assume the files are protected.
- Increased Decryption Speed
- Custom images, position, size and scale for loader background and "loadbar". Specified by HTML tags - could be used for product advertising etc.
- Full package includes Javascript for automatic prompting of plugin installation or update requirements.

Update :

- Loader checks license server to see if license has been invalidated. If invalid then loader shuts down itself and the browser host. There is a failsafe mechanism - Licensed applications will never be shutdown incorrectly.

Update:

- Fixed issues with Opera Compatibility.
- Tweaked Versioning system.

yay!

Update :

- Streamlined Plugin Install Framework for FireFox, Mozilla, Netscape and Opera : Complete. Features automatic detection of Plugin version, updating and HTML page forwarding. Will require some .php knowledge.

I will release this to registered customers as soon as the IE specific version is complete.

- Cross browser Install Framework Completed. Supports all browsers and provides a simple and intuitive method of end-user plugin installation. Automatic checking of installed versions and redirection to downloads if necessary.

Do you reckon your average joe is going to install random plugin just to play games? I won't, I have too many plugins already..

Some interesting stats :

2198 "Average Joes" have installed igLoader since I starting recording stats on Cloverleaf games. That's about 157 per day at the current rate. These are cloverleaf only stats and are for my own games.

igLoader will go live on a number of other commercial sites by the end of this month and I anticipate, due to the games being served, that the number of igLoader installs will increase at an exponential rate.

I'm still trying to get this to work. I've downloaded the plugin, clicked on the link to play a "WEBBED" game and i get this...

@Ross, can you try this link, it's WIP.

{LINK REMOVED - OLD HAT}

I tried the link, but no game appears inside it... I get the window, and a blank white part, where i assume the game is supposed to be?

I get a "Game Frame" window with a grey box but no game. Perhaps I need to update my version of the plugin. When I closed the window IE bombed with and access violation and shut down.

Don't you just hate technology. Sometimes is just like "Square Peg, Round Hole!"..

I'm gonna delete that WIP *GONE*

I need some REAL testers, I'll give you a free license if you can help me test the compat. issues.

"REAL testers" what that supposed to mean >:( ... kidding;-)

Another 398 unique installs of igLoader today from the Cloverleaf site alone.

453 installs today - we've got a trend going here.

yeah, but the problem is your web games just don't work at least for me. I've been following your posts and I keep trying to play them, but I either get a grey window or a MAV. So I wonder how many installs are actually failing?

Is this still alive? Anyone using this? I have sent emails with no response. I'd love to use this if it actually works.

Tim responded to me, IGLoader is still being supported and developed. :)