Video Chief Blu-ray Warning

Pretty interesting to see someone speak out.
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In an extraordinary speech, former Warner Home Video president Warren Lieberfarb has hit out at Sony over its tactics in winning the next generation war between Blu-ray and HD-DVD.
Speaking at the Perspectives in European Video conference, he addressed Sony's battle to bring its Blu-ray format, used in PlayStation 3, to prominence.

He said movie studios are being drawn into the war between console manufacturers, against their will, and not necessarily in their interest. He said, "If I put Blu-ray in PlayStation and I don't license it to Microsoft for Xbox and I get all the studios to only publish in PlayStation, I'll beat Microsoft in the next-generation games market. We've been sucked into PlayStation versus Xbox."

He went on, "Hollywood blew it. They got duped. They could have created the format that optimized their creative interests. It looks like we lost, because there are six studios supporting Blu-ray and only three supporting HD-DVD. But you know, there's always surprises."

'Samurai' Sony

He said, "If you ever read 'The Art of War,' you will see all of Sony's moves, including taking all its enemies in the same tent and then leaving them empty-handed. These are things that they have done historically."

He added, "They did the same thing to Matsu@#!*a and Betamax, they did the same thing to Matsu@#!*a on compact disc, they did the same thing to Matsu@#!*a on the digital video camcorder. They compete like samurai. It isn't the way we compete in the West."

Lieberfarb, who is in Microsoft's anti Blu-ray camp and consults for the company, urged the industry to embrace HD-DVD. "Convergence is here, everything is digital, the Internet is going to deliver video, you are going to want to pass information from one device to another and HD-DVD versus Blu-ray is really the first battle in the issue of who controls the home."


Source: Hollywood Reporter

Ah the forum censor, always amusing.

lol. Too true, swifty - it's a classic.

Oh dear! Sony is adopting Microsoftesque tactics! Run for the hills!

Well that parts at least accurate. In the west, we don't compete at all, we embrace governemnt sanctioned and sponsored monopolies.

I can't believe he's trying to make an arguement that Microsoft are less focused on DRM than Sony. Just because Microsoft haven't gotten as much flak in the press over theirs as Sony has, doesn't make them less guilty - just better at not getting caught and/or effective damage control when they do.

I don't see why Sony doesn't just use blu-rays for it's own console and HD-DVDs for home entertainment systems. Would reduce piracy a little.

Cos they want it all, just like Microsoft.

Who could have predicted that Sony bashing could become as tiresome as Microsoft bashing so soon.

Sony sucks ... whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa <runs away crying>....

Someone needs to create a dual layer disc that works in both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD format. Either dual sided or some new format with a special algorithm. That person could make a fortune.

They should just store data inside diamonds and use laser beams to read and write the data. I've seen it being done on television. I think it was Star Trek.

maybe they will, the tech is certainly there, just not cost effective just yet

Just wait a while, and we'll have compact-flash cards of 60Gb .. byebye "flat round objects".

I like Bluray's concept since it's inception almost 10 years ago but I really don't like the direction Sony have been taking it over the last 12 months.

I never liked HD DVD from the start, it's just another of those 'next step up' things, not the 'next best thing' thing. Microsoft don't think big anymore.


Umm, you want someone to invent a disc that can be read by two differently coloured lasers? There's a reason blue lasers are being used in bluray ;]


It's only because MS don't own a record label and started pushing bad viral software on their latest releases. MS only get caught up in swindel once every 2-4 years - with the release of a new OS.

No he couldn't. He would have to pay 2 fotunes in fines for patent infringement, so he'd be out a fortune.

You can license the rights to anything ... and all we're talking about here is a high capacity disc that can be read by both players ... potentially not infringing on any patent.

Try thinking outside the box ... instead of spinning the lazy susan!

Unless they manufacture it in china.

No matter what it will be manufactured in China or India.

Everything is "outsourced" these dats. When I call HP to order printer parts I am speaking to someone in Bangladesh. This is a call from the USA. Frequently they get the parts number incorrect and it takes longer to order the part AND they usually send it to the wrong place... but it is MUCH cheaper for HP.

i beleave jfk was making a joke based on china's lack of intelectual property inforcement

No you can't. You can license specific rights, to use specific patented technology, if you agree to the terms and conditions put forth by the patent owner.

How are you not going to infringe a patent, if you're using their technoloy to play their patent protected discs? You can't even (legally) play your legally purchased DVD disc, on your legally purchased DVD-drive that's hooked up to a legally purchased computer, that runs an OS (Linux for example) that isn't endorsed by the DVD Content (ups I mean Copy) Control Association.

There's a difference between a pipe dream, and thinking out of the box. You cannot create a disc that uses Blu-Ray technology with licensing it from Sony, and Sony is not likely to allow it's Blu-ray players to play unauthorized discs. What you're likely going to see is Disc Players with both Blu-ray and HD-DVD trays, just like you used to be able to get players with Laser Disc and DVD trays.

Well patents are enforced to some degree in China. More importantly any products in violation of federal law will not be allowed to be imported, (such as Elcomsofts Advanced eBook Processor) so will only be offered to the Chinese.

Personally, HD-DVD and Blu-Ray will also soon be outdated-

What CS_TBL said about about 60gb compact flash cards?

IBM are already on their way to fitting 1TB onto a slate the size of a flash card. I just wish these would be the media of choice-

Sadly, their size makes them too easy to lose.

*continues searching for his DS games*

Cygnus brings up the best point. While all these fancy tiny objects are mavels. They are TOO small. They also don't have the same appeal as hard, single use, this is my labeled CD that came in a box designed for this CD and goes with this CD and has cool art on it printed in high rez with higher quality paper than I can get graphics an detailing, media does.

Its why people love their LPs but let their cassette stretch out and the plastic melt sitting in the card.

It is why console games come in DVD cases, and indeed, why DVDs come in DVD cases. Because they ARE bigger, and show the art off, and feel better in your hand than a flimsy jewel case....

It even comes down to smells and sounds having to do with the media.

CDs aren't nearly as loved as records were... They don't have a smell, or a huge cover, or that pop and hiss that tells you it is YOURS. That makes it sound like it is yours, and is as unique to you as it can be.

Eventually things will change so fast.... and I'm predicting in the next generation... that there will no longer be new ways to deliver media in a hard form.... Everything will be downloaded onto an Ipod like device. What you will have is limited pressings of vinyl. Limited CDs with full casing for music buffs.. (available in any format you want, CD, mp3, or some newfangled format) and the same will be true for movies, games, and everything else new that might come along.

It won't cost any more to let people have a choice than it costs to not let them have a choice... and therefore, there will be more places.. (like www.allofmp3.com ) that give you a choice and are cheaper than the places that don't give you a choice.

well.... This will be true until they capacity of a device is so high that it becomes almost pointless to need more than one of said device, it will be so small it can be implanted and therefore never lost, and will be able to interface with other people's devices and with a PC through touch.... (all possible and in the case of touch based data transmisson actually implimented in a prototype)

At that point... you will just have to listen to what you want in your head... shake someone hand and get a read out of the data about them they want you to know (name, e-mail, phone, and what not) and then touch your computer and it downloads to your address book.

DampeS8N: then why didn't the HUGE digital video discs take off?

too expensive at the time, too easy to break, and they held far too little info... I remember them using them in my HS... what fits on a DVD took 3 laser disks (which is what I assume you mean)

the players cost 1000's of $ and they also lacked the same things I mentioned... smells, feels, sounds... texture.

CDs only took off because they managed to retain a good package for the music and they really are THAT much better than a record is sound quality and the mobility of the CDs.... but making them smaller or hold more data or holding better quality isn't going to matter... they are portable enough, they reach a quality beyond what most people can hear the difference at, and holding more music wasn't a big draw (which is why DVD music player never took off... even tho there were music on DVD DVDs for a while... huge numbers of songs on a dvd... and the only devices that can play them are DVD players... and people just didn't need them.

DVDs only took off because they other thing we had was even worse... big clunky lowrez cassettes that degrade after 10 years and only hold a couple hours of movie...

And CDs had the same boost... PCs... which had to use floppys before the CDs.... (mainly)...

But we have other options for PCs now... or at least... DVDs are good enough right now.... they only upgrades come in the form of expensive cards.... that most PCs can't read yet....

To be perfectly blunt I dont care which system wins. Microsoft or Sony... they're both a bunch of crooks. I'd not favour one over the other. If I stepped in them i'd wipe them both off my shoe.

CD's only took off because they stopped making records.

DampeS8N, in your first post, you started out sounding a
little cynical about current technology, making strong
points about the perks of old technology, (tactile qualities,
art, etc) but then you kind of lost your cynicism when you
started descibing all of the cool future technologies
(implants, etc). So, I'm confused. Are you for or against
all of this? ;)

Now back on topic.

Whatever the result of this battle, the winner will only
own the industry for 10, maybe 20 years.

Solid state storage is the future (the near future, even)
The only drawback right now is cost. Once that comes
down, there will be no more spinning disks holding our
data.

That is, unless this amazing new format really takes off.
160 terrabyte storage, 120MBs transfer rate and an
archival time of 50 years. I mean, come on!

These two giants might lose sooner than we think, if tech
like this develops or if Flash memory becomes cheaper.

Very good point. But what you have to understand is that While I love the old, I also love the new.... But I'm reasonable about my new.... things that aren't really better, that are just new, bother me.

If a solid state device holds 1000 times what a DVD does and costs 1000 times as much, what is the point? And all the negatives... like being small and easy to lose....

But once it becomes seemless, tactile (as in only having to grab someones hand and getting a beep in your ear... or just having to use a device to interface with the system to play songs right into your ear.... or ultimately only having to think about what you want to do...

At that point, you'll have a all this old technology we really love... like a book with that old book smell and pages.. that you download text into and only need the 1 book for hundreds of book.. being able to select the book you want, save your page and be able to open the book to the middle and pickup exactly where you left off.

Thats the real future... not fancy tech that looks fine on its own... but being able to have a fantasy house where you can literally cast spells or other such things....

It is the recombination of texture, tactile, feel, and musk to things that would today be cold, ultramodern and finely structured.... That doesn't appeal to everyone, and appealing to everyone means being flexible and personal and indeed, tactile.

For me.. the smell of a new game's manual is very very pleasing... I don't want to lose that... But I want my progress too.

FlameDuck: The vinyl record industry is still around. Nowhere near mainstream but for 'true' DJ'ing (seamlessley blending one tune into the next) records just cannot be beaten. Sure, Pioneer have taken steps to make CD almost as tactile as vinyl with their CDJ players, but it just aint the same :)

With the right gear, we are still able to produce more detailed sound from vinyl than will ever be capable of a 44.1KHz 16bit digital representation.

**EDIT** fair enough, SACD wipes the floor with vinyl in terms of audio quality, but SACD is even less popular than vinyl at the moment :)

I think it's horses for courses. If you like Otis Redding then it just isn't the same without a donkey widdling on a crisp packet in the background. If you are into Enya then such a thing has no place and is of extreme irritance.

What I find intolerable is this "digital remastering". That, I think, means "drag some idiot off of the street who knows nothing about anything and put them in charge of mixing". I've lost count of the number of albums totally ruined by remixing.

I hear that! If I see 'digitally remastered' on a CD cover I know full well that they've run the original through a click&pop remover and mangled the EQ to make it sound 'fresh' (i.e., treble +2,000,000db, midrange barely existent and bass exaggerated beyond all reason).

I like my EQ flat, but thanks for asking.

That new hologram storage thing looks cool :o)

@drew - you make a valid point, but in your example look at what they're actually going to do with the technology. At the end of next year we'll have not a 160tb hard disk, but a 300gb one. It wont acess at 120mb/sec, it'll acess at 20mb/sec. Errr, does anyone else not see the flaw?

I think holographic technology will eventually surpass traditional technologies if it is developed but if at launch it is as inferior to existing technology as planned then it will become a dead duck for marketting, and technology is a market driven sector.

Yes, they don't want to sell the solution for the next 100 years. This would mean they won't sell anything for 100 years. So they gonna sell you something that is a little better than what you already got, year for year.

They are capable of using molecular crystal gatter deformation as optical 3D Data storage since a dozen of years, but it seems they think WE are not "ready" for it.

jfk: they demoed a prototype storage system which was a crystal cube which could be 'written' by firing 2 laser beams at a point within the cube to break a molecular bond. Data could be read back by analysing the scatter of a beam aimed through the same point.

What they haven't got is a way of re-writing data, reading the data even as fast as 1X CD, creating the material substrate with good purity or finding a substrate that is durable.

We will get there at some point, but these things take time.

Holographic is assuredly the way forward for compact disc storage. However, the areas that really need focus when we're talking about both primary and secondary storage are latency and speed.

Both are now woefully inadequate when you consider that even a bottom-end CPU can process a few billion operations a second. A cache-miss means the loss of over a thousand CPU cycles whilst it waits for the data to be dragged from RAM. If that data isn't in RAM but has been paged to HD, you're looking at millions of cycles before the CPU gets its data.

HD access latencies really haven't seen much improvement over the past few years. The only real improvements have been platter capacity, noise reduction and transfer speeds. NCQ has been a small improvement, but rarely applicable outside of a web server scenario.

RAM latency is pretty much subject to the speed of electricity through the circuitry involved. The only way forward is RAM directly incorporated into the CPU package or even the CPU die. This could perhaps be in the form of much extended L2 cache or something as low tech as a GDDR3 module incorporated into the CPU package, something AMD could probably manage quite well considering they already have their memory controller in the CPU die.

As always with any sooth-saying about technology, we can only wait and see.