I was thinking, as my current joint project is in the style of cartoony ( minus the cell shading), of just using vertex colours, instead of textures. Well, there will be a few textures, but mainly vertex colours. Anyone got any opinions on this?
Game Graphics
Miscellaneous Forums/General Discussion/Game Graphics Quite frankly the texture overhead is minimal so you probably won't get a faster game out of not using many textures.
Vertex colours I find are always handy to have 'in the bag' so to speak if you want to pull out an additional effect (lighting or whatever) so personally I'd go for textures and leave the vertex colours spare incase you need them later. You can still keep the textures to solid colour but it just gives you a bit more freedom.
Of course I could be talking rubbish and if your game is perfectly planned you won't even need to worry about needing extra stuff later on.
Vertex colours I find are always handy to have 'in the bag' so to speak if you want to pull out an additional effect (lighting or whatever) so personally I'd go for textures and leave the vertex colours spare incase you need them later. You can still keep the textures to solid colour but it just gives you a bit more freedom.
Of course I could be talking rubbish and if your game is perfectly planned you won't even need to worry about needing extra stuff later on.
Nice, I like minimal graphics. I think it makes more elegant games.
Well, here's a shot featured the cabin, with textures:
And with vertex colours: (ignore the white ramp :o) it's to avoid the stairs, but i haven't alphaed it yet)
And with vertex colours: (ignore the white ramp :o) it's to avoid the stairs, but i haven't alphaed it yet)
I don't think either look good if you're going for the style of the player.
The player is in one style and the cabin a totally different style and they don't fit together. You need to look at either the player mesh or the cabin mesh and keep the style the same.
The player is in one style and the cabin a totally different style and they don't fit together. You need to look at either the player mesh or the cabin mesh and keep the style the same.
Just use whatever style you like. If using vertex colours only gets the effect you're after, what's the problem? ;) In fact, I've even considered doing a 3D game where each entity is a single colour and full-bright lit, so you basically just see the silhouette. I saw this effect used on a TV promo and thought it looked kinda cool. I just haven't thought of a game idea that would suit it... yet. :)
What is the style difference between the two? I'm a little outta my depth :o)
What is the style difference between the two?
Which two? Vertex colours Vs. texturing or vertex colours Vs. full-bright? No, between the player and the cabin :o)
Visually, not a lot, in this instance. :)
Hmm, thanks. I'd like to here Robs opinion on this too. Come on! Show yourself ¬_¬ :o)
Sorry, I didn't really understand the question. :P
Right... just before I go to bed!
The player is brightly coloured, the cabin is brown.
I would expect to see the railings brightly painted with colour, the window and door frames a different colour.
The individual logs in the cabin make it look far to busy by comparison with the player who is made from solid colours.
Likewise the stone in the background and grass look wrong as these are traditional detailed textures.
You've got to be one or the other, I don't think mixing it up works at all.
Look at cartoon grass or walls, it's basically a solid colour with the odd bit of detail basically explaining to the viewer what it is you're looking at.
Anyway... that's just my view... not right or wrong.
The player is brightly coloured, the cabin is brown.
I would expect to see the railings brightly painted with colour, the window and door frames a different colour.
The individual logs in the cabin make it look far to busy by comparison with the player who is made from solid colours.
Likewise the stone in the background and grass look wrong as these are traditional detailed textures.
You've got to be one or the other, I don't think mixing it up works at all.
Look at cartoon grass or walls, it's basically a solid colour with the odd bit of detail basically explaining to the viewer what it is you're looking at.
Anyway... that's just my view... not right or wrong.
No, big10p, i want your opinion too :) Thanks Rob, i see what you mean, and i agree on your points.I'm going to add some brighter colours to the cabin, as it does look bland. As for the backround and grass, i've not worked on them at all.
Thanks guys!
Thanks guys!
I'm no graphic artist :o) But, if you need anything, i'll give it a shot.
Here's a new shot, with simplier graphics and a brighter cabin. Any further suggestions? Does it look any better?
I liked the first shot.
In terms of graphical style in many games this is locationally varied. The building is made of wood, the hero isn't unless your doing a game about Pinnochio. I dont think that the styles shown are too independant of each other, but there is one slight error which does spoil the scene a little.
The cabin wood seems to have shadow effects drawn on the texture, or is it perhaps vertex lighting? Either way in the 3rd screenshot that i'm looking at now the lighting is not consistent between objects.
Lighting/Shading style should match between objects and between different scenes, but style consistency is as rellevent to a computer game as a piece of cheese is to bread... You can use them together, but it's not necessary.
In terms of graphical style in many games this is locationally varied. The building is made of wood, the hero isn't unless your doing a game about Pinnochio. I dont think that the styles shown are too independant of each other, but there is one slight error which does spoil the scene a little.
The cabin wood seems to have shadow effects drawn on the texture, or is it perhaps vertex lighting? Either way in the 3rd screenshot that i'm looking at now the lighting is not consistent between objects.
Lighting/Shading style should match between objects and between different scenes, but style consistency is as rellevent to a computer game as a piece of cheese is to bread... You can use them together, but it's not necessary.
Hmm, i've reuploaded a new version of the screen shot, with additional textures. I think it's more uniform now. That lighting problem seems to be a vertex normal problem. I'll have a look at that one, thanks :o)
The cabin in the last shot does go together with the player much better, as does the grass.
The rock cliff still seems out of place though -- too bright, and too many circle patterns. Maybe more brownish, with some vertical lines here and there indicating height, rather than all the circle work?
The rock cliff still seems out of place though -- too bright, and too many circle patterns. Maybe more brownish, with some vertical lines here and there indicating height, rather than all the circle work?
I might actually remodel the cliff part. It's made from a very small amount of polys. And the texture repeats all the way round. I tried messing about with different textures and colours, but, i couldn't seem to get anywhere...
Even worse, from a distance, the texture kind of looks like... beans! :D
Even worse, from a distance, the texture kind of looks like... beans! :D
i've gotta agree with Rob on this... the character seems out of place with the rest of the scenery... in both shots... although the second shot is a lot closer...
... ahhhh, what the heck do i know about this sorta stuff anyway :)
--Mike
... ahhhh, what the heck do i know about this sorta stuff anyway :)
--Mike
Hey Ross,
its pretty simple when you look at it! Exaggurate shape and tone down on texture detail! Thats it!
This means, the cabin should be even more "skewed" and assymetrical. The textures MUST NOT have details that are smaller than the characters hand for example (about that size). That means, no wood grain, because wood grains are too small and add too much detail. No realistic shading. The cartoony shading is different, and if you want to get logs to look ok, make shading simpler and try it full bright. By simpler i mean ... more cartoony. Bottom line is, you just have to have talent to know what you should do.
The trees look great. Use more regular geometric shapes like that. Look at Southpark or something, and go towards that extreme.
In my opinion, for the logs use less colours. In fact, try to avoid gradients completely and use simple line shading technique. I dont mean shading for lighting, shading for texture. So, have logs lined horizontally, all single colour, and add some streaks of lines accross that are clearly different darker colour than the logs. Not sure if i can put into words what im imagining. That's how i see all the cartoony stuff looks, i mean you know without me saying.
To sum it up: Cartoony means : less detailed texture (but high res is nicer) and less colours (but colourful).
its pretty simple when you look at it! Exaggurate shape and tone down on texture detail! Thats it!
This means, the cabin should be even more "skewed" and assymetrical. The textures MUST NOT have details that are smaller than the characters hand for example (about that size). That means, no wood grain, because wood grains are too small and add too much detail. No realistic shading. The cartoony shading is different, and if you want to get logs to look ok, make shading simpler and try it full bright. By simpler i mean ... more cartoony. Bottom line is, you just have to have talent to know what you should do.
The trees look great. Use more regular geometric shapes like that. Look at Southpark or something, and go towards that extreme.
In my opinion, for the logs use less colours. In fact, try to avoid gradients completely and use simple line shading technique. I dont mean shading for lighting, shading for texture. So, have logs lined horizontally, all single colour, and add some streaks of lines accross that are clearly different darker colour than the logs. Not sure if i can put into words what im imagining. That's how i see all the cartoony stuff looks, i mean you know without me saying.
To sum it up: Cartoony means : less detailed texture (but high res is nicer) and less colours (but colourful).
The wood grain on the bridge has been replaced. Thanks for the tips guys! :D I dunno what you mean mike? The second shot is an old shot, the third shot is more like current. :o)
There comes a time when you've got to stop asking people what they think. EVERYONE's gonna be a tit and keep telling you whats wrong with it.
FORGET what they think. Ol Rob says you're on the right track and thats that.
Now rely on YOU... finish this thing.
FORGET what they think. Ol Rob says you're on the right track and thats that.
Now rely on YOU... finish this thing.
Yes sir! :o)
i would tell your graphics guy to pull his finger out , so you can carry on codeing without worrying about the graphics ;)
the cabin in that last shot looks great
the cabin in that last shot looks great
hehe thought I recognized the player character from somewhere else. :P
Hehe, no worries Tiler/scribble, take yer time man :o) I'm having fun messing about!