Defecting To DBPro!!!

that's right... you heard me right... it's that time of the month again :)

the next week will be spent assessing how far DBPro has come... and if it's gameworthy (a term derived from a Seinfeld episode where Elaine was short on spnges, so all her prospects had to pass the spongeworthyness test :) )...

there's really nothing new going on here, unless you are into 2D GUIs... and for the life of me, i can't get over this obsession with plastic, unreal looking, bumpmapped virtual environments (ala DOOM3 and Quake4)...

so... before i really go nuts and spend some real money on AMP2 or Unigine, i'm gonna review all my low cost options (that definitely does not include going back to the DX9 SDK :) ... at least not yet)...

ok... 5 minute break... laugh your arses off now....

ok... break time is over... now that you've gotten that outta your systems, DBPro is DX9 shader capable...

... i think

i mean, if the stuff there is working now, even half working... i've gotta see... everything else i've been counting on won't be ready for another few months...

my ole lady will have thrown me and the computers out the door by then...

so ya see... i'm desperate...

have pity on me...


anyway... first 3 hours with DBPro yielded this...



what else did you expect... i only know how to make subs!!! and my water in Blitz didn't look that convincing...

plus... none of my scenes were plastic and wet looking enough to even come close to the DOOM3 look...

so... one week... that should be long enough...

hey... i heard that... noo lafffing back there!!!

--Mike

see ya round

Erm, but the DBPro water looks naff?

hey puk...

naff... is that Brit for great...

:)

--Mike

Blitz3D should be able to do that. Look for my "Doom" demo for bumpmapping code.

The water he did in Blitz was far better than what he has posted above.

Personally, I think he should just take the monitor into the bath with him and splosh about a bit.

Does DBPro support triple full stops?

hahaha... puk, would ya turn around for a second, so you don't see this coming :)

***smack puk in the head with a large fish***


actually... the water in Blitz was NOT better looking than the shader based DBPro water... i'll show you why i say that...

this goes back to the 'water challenge' post of a few weeks ago...i asked if anyone could make water that looked like this scene from Virtual Sailor in Blitz...



my best attempt was based on some code by rob cummings and from the cube mapping code in the code archives...



miss Becky also did some nice stuff in her WaterWorld demo...

but none of em ever approached the look of the water from the target scene from Virtual Sailor...

now the shot i showed you above wasn't the best... maybe i should've showed this one...



now i think that even puk will agree that this shot, also from DBPro, comes closer than any of my previous attempts...

sorry... that's just the way it be... ya can't beat those shaders for realism... well, at least the DOOMY3 sort of realism i'm trying to get... and i aint good enough to work shaders into Blitz3D...

and yes, DBPro now supports triple full stops... but they all have spaces in between em :)



--Mike

Not reflecting the sub though.

I don't like it - take it away.

That new shot is definitely better. You would have to have a very finely tesselated mesh to match that in B3D.

I agree with Red. The DBpro water looks far better than the water he's made in Blitz and if DBpro is the engine that works for him I say good luck to him. But I don't think this is really the place he should be talking about it. I think the DB forums would be more appropriate.

Of course that looks nice, but it also requires a compatible card. Personally I still have a card that has no dx9 capable shaders. I bet your app would crash on my machine, or at least refuse to run.

As long as graphics are not a compensation for the lack of gameplay it's ok. I'd rather play a game with a cool gameplay and imperfect water fx than the opposite.

halo - it would be a serious waste of performence to use a mesh. But when you use a terrain, it's easily possible in DX7.

Maybe the sequel of Blitz3D for DX7 will be Max3D for DX9.

MIke & Anthony should team up, Anthony could pick the weekly project, and Mike could pick the weekly language *ducks*

Sorry, couldn't resist guys.

Mike, use the best tool for the job. I have been thinking of getting DB Pro to play around with 3D, for ME, DB was always easier to use than Blitz. I downloaded the DB Pro demo and played with it and liked it. But, couldn't help but chuckle at the "machine code" EXEs it creates. Basicly, everything is kept in DLLs and the DLLs are stuck in the EXE and extracted at runtime to a temp directory. This makes B3D EXEs look small in comparison. DBP's IDE still sucks and the online activation is a nusiance.

Ah ah ah! Water :)
http://www.codersworkshop.com/viewshowcase.php?id=486

Good luck with that, though. That's attractive water you have there, too.
I'm still going to sit tight and wait for Max3d over here, though. I prefer to do my own FX, even though I'm really bad at it.

it looks way to much like a mirror, can you make it reflect the sub and add a bit of transparency there?

I bet you it would crash on mine too, and that is DX9 compliant.

Doesn't Blitz3d still run rings around DB in terms of speed?

to be honest MJack... i don't know for a fact... the Pro version is fast, but i haven't done any comparitive testing...

TroM... yes it does look like a mirror... and yes, i can show you a pic of it reflecting the sub more and with transparency... are ya gonna make me turn the machines back on and do all that...

Brice... you're right (the type of execs DBPro produces)... what's the deal with all that... but me teaming up with Ant... you're wayyyyy off on that...

jfk, TroM... yeah, you're gonna need a ps/vs 2.0 capable card... a GeForceFX 5200, at the extreme cost of around $70, will get you over 60fps running this at 1024x768... hope that doesn't break ye ole piggy bank... and if you aren't already aware (i'm sure you are), if you don't have this or a comparable, or greater setup, then you are playing games in a cave back in the 4th century... sorry, i guess then i'll have to write a fallback water for you... but i't won't look as good...

Oddball... yes... actually, i am talking about it on the DBPro forums as well... along with all the faults i see with DBPro, some of the advantages of Blitz3D, and the upcoming BlizMax3D module... i get the same sorta reaction there too... what's he doin here talking bad about our god type thing... why don't he go over to the Blitz forum... fortunately, the developers over here are not as closed minded, and there exists an uncensored discourse of 3D topics... at least that's the way i thought it was...

finally... puki... ya want it to reflect the sub some more... bring yur lil pin head over here and i'll make it reflect the sub more for ya :P... no i aint gonna take it away... look at it...

i said look at it!!!!

turn away one more time, and ya get another smack with da trout :)


hey guys... like i said... this is only a week long defection... unless i make some really stunning breakthrough :)

besides... i'm tired of sitting around here listening to everyone bad mouth each other, and the dev team, while waiting for the 3D module to appear...

hey Halo... i can't find that demo you mentioned above... can you point me to it when you get a chance... i'd like to take a look see... thx...

--Mike

why are you defecating on DBPro?

hahaha... defacating... LOL :)

--Mike

I can only judge by what people put out for others to see...
DarkBasic seems to have longer loading times and yes, it doesn't keep any of your resources secure and if you are making something ambitious someday you are going to run into a big speed issue...
It also seems to be very instable, just as almost any other product that Lee Bamber produces... Sorry, Lee...
I used to use DB and had tried DBPro demo and then I ran into blitz3d, seen a demo, exceeded the 16k limit and thought: "That's perfect!". And that was when I bought it!
So I bet you'll be coming back to b3d or 3dmax, but so far if you find DBPro more useful - why not? Go ahead!
We all have a right to choose...

God, does this get boring!

Ok, so what, you can spend time and get a few fancy features working, whoopy bloomin doo!

So you are a fiddle about dreamer who always wants THE latest features but will never actually accomplish anything but a poxy rough demo. Always convincing himself that he MUST HAVE XYZ feature to create a AAA+ game.

DBPro is aimed at the fiddle about people, push past that and it doesn't cut the mustard. Get into something realistic and watch it crawl like a 286 trying to do real time rendering.

Anyway, good luck with your new fiddle about venture.

That pretty much describes every engine out there that costs less than $10,000.

<Cough> ... <Cough> ... <Bull@#!*> ... <Cough> ...

Since I own the full versions of both BarkBasicPro AND Blitz3D, I have done comparative testing. As far as I have tested, DBPro doesn't even come CLOSE to Blitz3D in terms of speed. 500 small objects in DBPro runs at around ~10 fps on a GeForce 2. 5000 of the same small object is Blitz3D run at 80 FPS on a GeForce 2! DBPro is slooow, although it may have increased speed with recent updates, although not from what I've read from the DB website. They claim to be "ignoring any optimizations for the moment to focus on bug fixes". As MJack said, Blitz3D literally runs rings around DBPro.


Sadly, you'd be lucky to get your DBPro game to run on your customer's PC's, let alone your own. Unfortunately, DBPro is extremely unstable. What's really ironic is that my entry to the Alienware competition obviously did NOT work correctly on they're Alienware testing PC (It is quit obvious from the screenshot and the description where they describe difficulties reaching the "invisible" checkpoints - obviously the "Ghost Object On" command was making my glowing light checkpoints completely invisible).


Yup. That's one thing I surely noticed about the DB forums. You mention Blitz in ANY WAY, and you're really in trouble with the mods. They will do anything to keep you away from the product that makes them cower in fear: Blitz! It amazes me, from what I've seen, how hostile they can get if you so much as mention the word "blitz". I have seen a post with the word "blitz" in it survive once, though, but that person said "DBPro is great and Blitz is stupid stupid stupid from what I've heard though I've never tried it".

Overall, DarkBasic Pro is extremely inferrior to Blitz3D, with the exception of it's (somewhat buggy) shader support.

Just been having a look at the DB forums...

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=62985&b=10

Nice car game (last post), T-he-he-he *giggles like little girl*
Oh yeah, don't forget to read the readme! :)

But seriously, that lil car game is glitchy on my machine, and its not exactly cutting edge. I spent a few months playing around with DB a few years ago, and from what I remember it is dog slow, and the syntax sucks.

But hey, wot eva floats ya boat! Good luck

it's true though, there aren't many if any proven modern shader engines that can be used for commercial games costing less than $10,000.

I was surprised at how expensive the new torque shader engine was. It's ok for indies doing computer games. But even that costs $10,000 per title to port to Xbox360. And commercial games are a lot more.

I've long considered defecting but keep finding myself coming back to blitz for some reason. Don't seem to be the only one either.

100% pure Blitz3D.
I can live with it. even more, I like it.

Cygnus and I have been working of a pretty good car game that blows that one away :)

And Vordermans doing a damned good stunt car racer game too :)

Got a fun little demo of ours in the link below



http://s93153354.onlinehome.us/racerproto.zip


edit: Damn thats some pretty nice water you got there jfk :)

>They will do anything to keep you away from the product
>that makes them cower in fear: Blitz!

Considering that Blitz stole all of their customers with Blitz 3D, I'd say that the reaction is actually quite logical.


Andy

I tried Db before finding Blitz, and to tell you the truth, after reading this:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=62985&b=10

and seeing how excited and supportive they were when
someone hobbled together an Exe that actually ran makes
me glad I decided to join the Blitz community instead.

Qube is absolutely right.

Red Oktober, I say go ahead and try new things, just be
sure not to spend money on something you might regret.
(I almost bought DB, dodged a bullet there!)

I've not tried that Irrlicht wrapper that Gman wrote yet,
but if I remember correctly, it is perfectly able to do those
fancy shader-tricks you're after.

Why do you want it anyway? Is that really what you need
to make a cool game? No offense intended, just
wondering.

Hey Red - I thought you were investigating Torque Shader Engine? Did that not prove to suit your needs?

I have both, Dbpro can in "theory"outrender B3d now (polywise) ver 5.9
I loaded a 33k poly mesh into Both and Dbpro easily bested b3d by about 100fps.

but like John J. mentioned, It appears Dbpro has an even harder time with Surfaces than B3d.
clone some low poly objects the FPS crawls.

and when you add collsions , sludge..lol

Its still buggy..but thats nothing new.

yeah JFK Really nice :)

Zmatrix

jfk - that's the best water I've seen in blitz - any tips ?

hey... calm down fan boys and girls... i just said i was defecting for about a week or so... no need to @#!* all over yourselves...

boy... some people are still soooooo threatened by even the mention of DarkBasic around here... that's absolutely amazing...


hey Sam... thanks for some actual data... what's the latest milestone for TSE by the way...

yeah JFK... that screenie is really nice... would be nicer if i could actually see some of that water undulating and moving like waves in the real ocean... and not just sitting there reflecting the sky like a mirror... still, it looks nice... could you direct me to where i might be able to look at some more info on that game, if it is a completed game...

E Angel... yeah... TSE is nice... but like i said above, it's still a work in progress... shadowing, optimized code, and a lot of other things are still months off...

Evak... yeah, i've seen Vorderman's car rallye game... great stuff... and your screenies look like a winner too...

Qube, Drew, and the rest of the gang... it's not like i've just discovered DBPro... i was coding in DB a long long time ago... the speed, the syntax, the blah blah blah... tell me something i don't already know about the thing... then i'd really be greatful to ya...

otherwise, go back to the other threads and waste your time lambasting the dev team about how late the 3D module is... or discussing the evils of the great satan Sony... or some other foolishness :P

this was meant to be an objective discussion about 3D engines in the same segment... not a cheerleader call for all the flag waving Blitz is better than your brand ladies...

--Mike

As soon as Truevision 6.5 is out I'd advise taking a look at it. I'm using it currently and I can pretty much guarantee that it blows Blitz3D, DarkBasic PRO, 3DState (good god that thing is a piece of crap..), etc. right out of the water.

Just thought I'd mention that, since there's a limit to what I'm actually allowed to say.

i've already licensed it... and it is looking pretty amazing... nice dx9 stuff, and what's there actually works... and works fast...

but, as you said... as soon as it's out... there's still a few months before we're gonna see the public beta... like almost everything else, including the next version of Blitz, we're gonna have to wait a while...

... in the meantime, i'm playing around with DBPro to help the time pass quicker.

--Mike

A lot of people are total idiots. They will leap to the defense of blitz at every opportunity red.

And guess what? no-one actually ATTACKED blitz! So some of the responses on this thread are P A T H E T I C!

I know some of the guys from TGC: they are hard working individuals and they try their utmost best... you can't ask for more than that.

In todays world, you will use a program to lightmap, a program to model...

It all comes down to the best tool for the job. RED doesn't want any lip... he just wants his sub game to look the best he can...

And if DBPRO will help him be happy with it... so be it!

Why begrudge? WHO says -anywhere- that you can't mention other products? Mark is a LIBERAL guy... he is over the petty sniping of yesteryear... hence anyone can talk about products here. After all, he isn't threatened.

You know, the db forums used to be REALLY bad... loads of this defensive behaviour lots of kids doing LOL's and so on...

Now that behaviour's here... Should be ashamed of yourselves cos red is just trying to make his game look real good.

If you can do water as good as a shader in blitz, show me the money, otherwise, let red be happy.

Yep - if you stop and think about it. Mike is merely ahead of the game where his potentially petty critics/customers will be. As his game will feature lots and lots of water it's only logical that he frets over the best way to achieve a satisfactory simulation... and as the goal posts are being moved all the time it's getting harder to rest on the laurels of gameplay alone in terms of sales and interest. The DP pro water looks on the mark to me, and as it's a stealthy sub game I don't think DB pro will be left stuttering to cope with 5000 copied objects at once!

Lets put it this way, the first thing people will whine about is the water if it falls short of the competition. I'd personally be very worried about the water too - unless I opted for a completely differnt style of representation which is also another option.

Having said that - you'll be back Mike! Ha ha! I can't even be bothered whining about the Max 3d module. After being bowled over by Blitz3D, I can wait in serene confidence for the knock'em dead goodies to come.

I think Mike has betrayed us all! Lynch him! Lynch him nowwwwww... or else get a life and realise that there ARE other ways to develop software apart from Blitz. Even though Blitz does rock. :)

All depends how you look at it, guys - I read most of this thread and it sounded like nothing more than friendly banter (containing some thruth). Nothing to get ticked off about.

Nothing wrong with having a selection of tools in your tool box with different strengths and weaknesses. Finding the right product for your current project makes total sense and that DBPro water is very nice.

ROTFLMAO.... ahahahahahahaaaaaa....

that's more like it...


--Mike

How is TV to use? Is it a language with engine attached like Blitz, or would one need to know C++? Assuming my 'career path' has been Spectrum Basic, AMOS, DB and B3D, how would I go about developing in TV?

Mike, I said this one and I'll say it again, IMHO, your sim game looked the best on the 3Impact engine....you might as well throw up an image just to prove my point :-P !

You might consider finishing the game first and worrying about the graphics later.

..mrtricks..if you familiar with BASIC, then Visual Basic shouldnt be problem to get and with it you can play with TV long as you want...

I wonder what this guy is doing.
http://www.nikkopay.com/blitz/news06.php

1. Very easy.
2. No, it's a library, you can use it with C++ (managed and unmanaged), Delphi, Visual Basic 6, Visual Basic .NET, C#, and any other language you can access a DLL in. So that includes BlitzMax. I'm using it with C#, myself.
3. By downloading the evaluation SDK and seeing if you like it. They have a freeware license so you can develop stuff with the engine without buying it if you're only going to to do free stuff. Visual Basic .NET is free for the time being, so if you're familiar with Basic languages only you could use it with VB .NET.

What are you going to do to make your weekly post when you run out of languages to defect too, Red?

May I suggest writing the game so you can post about it's development?

Strange.. that's not the way it appears to me.


I own both Blitz3D and DarkBasic Professional. I simply gave my opinion of Blitz3D compared to DBPro. As I have said, DBPro does have an advantage over Blitz3D in the fact that it supports shaders. I think if DBPro works for Red better than Blitz3D, than that's fine, I'm glad he's finding some use for it.

I think it's really unfair to call posters in this thread "total idiots". Maybe you would reconsider if you saw these posts:


etc.

To me, most of the posts sounded very open-minded and helpful. Actually, I'm very grateful that threads like this are possible in the blitz forums.


If you want to read attacks on Blitz3D, this is not the place - try the DB forums, I'm sure there's many there who've never tried Blitz3D and have accepted the brainwashing that "Blitz3D is stupid".

I don't know. Maybe I'm biased. I've used DBPro for years, and read (and blindly accepted) many many posts of how superior DBPro is to Blitz3D (although when asked "did you try Blitz3D?", these people always answered "no but it's a stupid language anyway").

All the annoyances of DBPro (bugs, slow performance, etc., etc.) I took for granted, since I never had anything better. Then, one day, I wondered why Blitz3D is so allegedly stupid. Why are all these people who have never tried it so viciously attacking anyone who mentions "blitz"? So I went over to blitzbasic.com and looked around.

I was amazed by the screenshots in the showcase and gallery. I thought, "This seems too good to be true". I downloaded the demo of Blitz3D, and tried it. Ever since I have always regretted my purchase of DBPro, wishing I had bought Blitz3D all along.

Now I'm not claiming Blitz3D is 100% better than DBPro. For me, I've never found any reason whatsoever why I would go back to DBPro, unless shaders are an absolute necessity (like they are for Red). I actually tried once to go back to DBPro to compete in a new DBPro programming competition, but found myself sitting there wondering how in the world I ever managed to program with a language so unmodular (mainly the object numbering system). I'm sure there's many other advantages DBPro has over Blitz3D, like Zmatrix's information about a single large mesh being slower in Blitz3D than DBPro.

Overall, use whatever programming language fits your needs best. Whether that be DBPro, Blitz3D, or anything else makes no difference to me.

Anyway, good luck with DBPro, Red! I hope you get more use out of it than I have.

He just rotates back and starts over again. :)

I own both, I like both, and when I was coding, (lately been doing other things game wise) I found uses for both.

DBPro has better support In my opinion, and they update more.

B3D has a better syntax, surface handling is better..

Red if your serious about your sub game, and to be honest the jumping around makes me think your not really that serious, move to DBPro, your DBPro shots look better.

But why not use TV3D 6.5 even in closed beta (which I am in) its a great product with a few minor issues.

TV3D and C++ is superior to B3D and DBPro any day. But its also a bigger committment.

Depends on who's actually developing with it....

Tse is milstone 2 still I think,
Last Base I downloaded had Atlas terrain and new water shaders...But I think you was them in the Tse demo that was posted.

Also I would like to say that I have not tried the ODE collisions in Dbpro 5.9 yet , May be alot better.

many Dx9 HLSL shaders will work with some tweaking.

I think Mike is serious, look how long he's been at it.



Zmatrix

Red - the water is animated. It's using optimized cubemapping (6 cameras, one render), plus there's an additional texture layer using an animated texture created with texture wobbler. The water is made of a 128^2 terrain that is animated/modified in realtime, using some individually scaled/overlapping sin/cos patterns/moires.

Although it runs smooth on my weak machine, I agree, shaders may be faster, so you can add more other things to the game. Not sure of that.

It's not a game, it's only a little demo I wrote in a couple of hours. Finally I think it's only up to the way you finetune the animation and the textures/colors etc. I'll release the source, no problem.

How about a little Blitz contest: Who's Mr. Water? who's gonna make the best water in "plain" Bitz3D?!

Probably I'm going to find some nice prize for the winner, I'll publish this in the Blitz Showcase Section.

jfk - hey... that sounds like fun... count me in...

zmatrix - yeah... i played around a bit with the demo, i think that was milestone 2 Sam... TSE still has a ways to go, and the dev team over there has got a lot on their plate... gonna be another couple of months at the least...

Neuro - the stuff in 3Impact wasn't bad... but i don't like the way we gotta blend textures with that multiple mesh workaround... and we need more lights... the more i do with it, the more i feel like i'm working myself into a corner...



--Mike

Well there's something you don't see everyday.

Anyways, jfk, code would be good, because that beats any amazing expectations I ever had of B3D too. You only run this competition thingy because you allready know you've won ;] Where were you during the waterworld thing btw?

> So some of the responses on this thread are P A T H E T I C!

I know exactly what you mean dude.

I don't really think that's the case. People are being pretty supportive, actually.
To be honest, you made a bigger deal about DB than anyone else did. lol.

But anyway, whatever tool gets the job done for you, be
sure to post the results so we can see! Maybe after you
get this shader thing sorted out, you can continue with
the actual game-creation. I'd like to see what you come
up with.

@Red, FYI I didn't post that link to poke fun at DB, I just thought it was amusing, after all we all know that DB can do better than that.

While I was playing with that little game thing, I had some stomach sinking DB flashbacks, probably triggered by the way the car wobbles when it turns *shudder*


Replace "threatened" with "put off" ;)

I'm all for using the best tools for the job, and if DB does it for you then thats great, as drew said post your results, you might even convert a few people :P

Yeah , Tse is still a while off. but it will probably be nice when it gets there.

I think most are being Fairly Supportive, It appears many people here own Dbpro.
Asking this Question A year ago would have been met with far a more Anti Dbpro responce.

Im still trying to hold out for the max3d modual as my next purchase.

Zmatrix

for me its been a toss up for either TSE or Bmax3D too.

They have to update more. Their product works less.

hahaha

There is no foundation for that accusation. Most updates are in actual fact free feature request enhancements.

There's always an idiot.

hahahahahahaaaaa ... ahhhhhhh, typical FlameDuckian logic...

but, even in his deluded world of pink skies, there lies some truth to what he says... the frequency of bug fixes is usually equal to the number of updates, minus one...

... but to be completely honest, they have a lot more to go wrong than Blitz3D does... dx9 stuff is the first that comes to mind... we don't even get that here in Blitz3D euphoria...

yes, the 3D module will be a godsend... until then, i'll again excercise my option to defect...

hahahaha... ya know... this is pretty funny...

yeah jfk... you know you've already got it won... but lets see the code... and lets still have the compo... i'm sure it would benefit the community...

... or those of us who are left... defectors and all :)


--Mike

This thread illustrates why most people never release anything. "Ooh, shiny object!"

well... what have you 'released' lately Warren... you personally, what have you released...

*** news flash Warren *** ... all that glitters IS gold in the gaming market world... regardless of whether or not there's a 'real game' behind it...

but you should already know that Warren... or maybe you're a secretary or something over there... and have nothing to do with game development and are totally oblivious to what is being produced over at Epic...

... lets just take a quick look... here's a nice looking, succesful company... chosen at random :)
lets take a look at the stuff that they're planning on releasing...

... and lets look at it through Warren's eyes...


well... there's certainly nothing shiny there is there... hahahahahaaa...

ok... not fair, right... that's not shipping yet... what about a shipping title...


ok.... nothing shiny there either..... ey...

ok lets go back to looking at the world through normal colored glasses...

are you sure you actually work over there...
hey, i could go on and on Warren... but, as they say, a picture is worth a thousand words... and these shots from epic say quite a bit...

mostly that you are not seeing the big picture...

hey... i don't even think that you are seeing the little picture...


--Mike

there has been a tendency for shiny objects recently. It's what ruins the look of most of those normal mapped games. Starting to see a few examples of games that have managed to have normal mapped shin that isn't so shiny, but the shadows are still too dark :(

I think we will see vast improvements in this area with next gen stuff on consoles and when Geforce7's are mainstream video cards :)

off-topic, @jfk: I hadn't noticed Texture Wobbler before. Sweet!

..hey Red, whatever anyone said, I still like your water/sub thingy experiments... :)) but if you like shaders, TSE is the way to go..trust me.. :))

thx NA...

Evak... i agree with that... either tooo shiny or toooo shadowy... or both...

--Mike

Funny how a lot of them say db pro is unstable, if only they knew it had been used in a product that has sold well in excess of 100,000 copies

Speaking of funny things: Using units sold as a measure of stability.

hehe, good one ducky!

no... that's not a good one at all...

belive it or not yung duck... but publishers rarely sell stuff what don't woik...

so, it is indeed a valid measure of the overall worth of the tool that was used... yes, the end product is definitely representative of the ability of tools used to create it...


of course, i wouldn't expect you to realize that though... seeing all the publisher guidlines you managed to meet, and all the published games and/or utils that they've accepted from you...

nahhhhh.... you're definitely too experienced in getting your software marketed to buy any of that...

ash... you're smarter than that... that's only a good one to someone who believes in duckisms... or is susceptible to jedii mind tricks :)

nice try duck... but you seemed to have missed the point... again...

--Mike

What is the DBPro blockbuster being referred to, might I ask? Is it that mahjong game?

Please don't post while under the influence. When the drugs wear off, you're just going to look silly.

That's interesting. How do you know how many games, utilities or applications I've sold? As far as I'm aware, you aren't one of my employees, a shareholder, or in any other way associated with me or my business, and thus you would not be privy to such information.

The sheer rediculousness of your ad hominem arguement is that you yourself are not in any position to critize others for lack of publicly presenting finished software.

So why don't you just stick to what you do know. Rendering shiny @#!*s on blue plastic.

under the influence.... hahahahahaaa... ahhhh, another good try 'duck...

but, the only thing i might be under the influence of, is the writning pain from laffing at some of the stuff you post...

one of your employees.... hahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaa.... and what company or corporation would that be... santa's elves and duckys, inc... or the what color is your sky company...


come 'duck... don't get your panty hose all tangled up now... lets keep it light hearted... i know that sometimes you want to reach out and touch me because i make you look like such a fool... but hey... if you can't take a lil light hearted ribbing without throwing a duck tantrum... well... stop saying all those stoopid things :P

hey... you're the one who gives me all the material... it's not like i'm not supposed to use it against you :P

hahahahahaaaa... now come on... be niiice... gimme a great big kisss, ya lil sweetie you...


--Mike

C'mon guys, you're walking down the royal road to lockage. Then again, this thread doesn't really have much point, so who cares?

Nothing like a mass debate !

duck has a way of doing that... ya know... the lockage thing...

as for me... nahhhh, i never get threads locked :)

as far as this thread having much point... uuuuuh, as compared to what...

the "what does Mark silby look like thread....

hahahahaha... comeone jH, this thread is on thelevel of Shakespeare's Greatest Works compared to a few others that are of recent fame around this forum...

... at least we get to exchange info and ideas about Blitz as well as other tools out there... and that can't be all bad... and every now and then mr. flameauduck entertains us with one of his witty duckisms...

now why would anyone object to that :)


--Mike

Red, I support you and all, but I have to this:

Stop instigating flamewars.

I'm on your side, but the more I read from your posts,
the more I think you started this thread just so you
could make people angry. That's not true, is it?

yes sir!!!!

stopping now sir!!!!

uuuuh, actually sir, in all fairness to me, sir... i don't think it was me who lit the match here sir...

if you'll up a few posts, you'll see that it was mr. duck who insinuated that i was under the influence of either some sort of drink or other substance... a clear dispersion on my character sir...

and, with all do respect sir... if you look up a few posts above that sir... you'll see that he made an ungentlemanly reply to one eyed's statement about the 100000 units sold post sir, another insinuation that one eyed's thinking, or the way he represented his point of view was totally absurd...

so sir... with all do respect and humility... i humbly request that you review the evidence at hand before you administer non judicial punishment and that all guilty parties... especially the instigator, as you so aptly phrased it sir, get an equal share of your wrath...

--Mike

Looks to me more like yet another thread where you post pictures of a sub floating in water, with some "blitz roolz db droolz" action thrown in for good measure.

you're so perceptive sometimes jH... why, that's exactly what it is...

as a matter of fact... i don't think i read where anyone said it was anything more than what you just described...

maybe less... but definitely not anything more...


yup... it looks like this one has definitely run its course...



--Mike

...

Oh god, now I'm being pulled in. Must... get back... to work...

that was a comparitive review jH... not a quantitative assement...

ya see... just when i give you a lil credit for being perceptive...


LOL @ Noodle... bad noodle, bad nooodle :)

--Mike

Red, you started a thread titled "Defecting to DBPro!!!"
in a Blitz forum. That is instigation, my friend.

only to an idiot drew...

... and of course, we all know that there are no idiots here... right, my friend...

so i didn't think that i had anything to worry about... as far as instigating anything...


--Mike

#2

yes... i agree... where's James...

James!!!!

Stephen!!!!

--Mike

Hey is that a DBPro command ?

only to an idiot Smiff...

(the edit button are mightier than the sword)

:)

--Mike

Thought I recognised it ;)

--Mike

LMAO, nice one red.

Huh? anyway the 100,000 copies sold is an old figure. Guess what? almost zero support required. Thats right, it doesn't crash.

Yeah I saw your sine scroller demo too. Shame you are unable to produce any links to argue the contrary...


Got a tip: Google doesn't really help you sound clever.

Heh, that poster just reminded me of a game idea Jeremy had for Leadfoot productions. A game based on his life story with drag racing and stuff in.

and that title is what?

As I have read this far - I feel it only fair that I post something for my trouble.

You are all a big bunch of girly little girls and not one of your bottoms is fit to sit on my outside lavvy....if I had one.

Red smells of wee and poo :o)

then get yur nose from down there Rossy... what do you expect... :P

--Mike

There's still some odious, hairy gunk at the bottom of this barrel..who's got long finger nails or a really abrasive tongue?

doh pwned

tHiS tHrEaD iS bOrInG.

I am still trying to figure out how a shiny sub can be considered realistic? Military subs are not shiny.

That said, DB Pro is not a bad product and in its current form is quit stable even on my low end machines. I wouldn't buy it because of the activation scheme, but any exes created with the demo work fine on all of my systems.

DB Classic was VERY stable in the end. B3D isn't without its faults. Collision is buggy and even DBC had better third-person camera than B3D.

I think this thread is pointless. If Red is defecting to DBPro who cares? I don't see why it warrants a thread on the Blitz forums. I could understand if he posted on the DB forums saying 'Hi guys, I've decided to use DBPro for my next project and here's what I've done so far', but no we get another I'm defecting thread. The first one was interesting as everyone was discussing the relative pro's and con's of all different engines, but now I don't think anyone really cares what engine Red has decided to glorify this week. If you've defected so many times Red why are you still here? Use whatever you want Red I don't think anyone cares how you make your water in the end.

yet you take the time to get yourself involved in it... hmmmmmm....


exactly....

i'm here to provide you with a purpose in that miserable existance you call a life... to give you someone to point a finger at and ask totally mindless questions about...

then i guess that's why that big, big, water compo over on the Showcase forum is just purely coincidental...

i guess someone must care... yeah, someone cares... just not about what you have to say...

as for jH... he's just cant stop talking... i understand... it's ok...


--Mike

You should all be banned and me proclaimed as the next messiah.

I try my best.The compo may have been initiated by you, but I don't think the entrants will really have your sub game in mind when entering. Good luck with DBPro and be sure to post on these forums regularly with your progress. Unless of course you plan on defecting next week too. And BTW next time you defect it will be from DBPro and not from Blitz, as you've already defected from Blitz, so post it on their forums instead.

who knows what 3d engine i'll be playing with next week...

i may be dead by next week...

you really out to worry more about yourself than me dear boy...
what you will and won't be doing next week would seem to be of more concern to you... you don't see me wondering about what engine you'll be using next week, do ya...

that's cause i'm normal... and your odd... ball...

--Mike

*rolls eyes* I guess I'm Red's new scapegoat.

Red: Try Realmforge next.

if you are jH... then you asked hard to be my scapegoat...

but the fact of the matter is... i don't have scapegoats... i hold no grudges... i luv everybody...

realmforge... hhhmmmmmm... :)

hey, what time is it over there... don't they have beds in the British sanitariums, or do they let you guys roam the halls all night long :)

hey, this has been fun and all... but a hot cup of tea and brady is being brought up by the lil wifey... and, believe it or not, that sounds like a lil more fun than humiliating you lot... so, see ya tommorrow...



--Mike

No it's because I don't tell the Blitz forums every week that I'm going to start using a different engine to make the same game I was making last week. BTW I'm using BlitzMax this week. I may be using something else next week, but I'm not going to announce it on the forums like some crazed attention seeker.

good... i'm happy for ya...

g'nite...

--Mike

I do believe he's gone senile.

This is the trouble when people "say" they're defecting, because they never actually do!

Come on Red, look at your posting rate in this thread, do you *really* have time to defect?

Jokes aside, just do what you feel you need to do to finish your game - but finish it. You make me remember my days when I spent more time talking about my projects than actually doing them... :p
I personally dislike db and dbpro but would like to see your game when it's done. Good luck!

I think Red just shot himself in the foot

just... just!!! el diablo dear boy, the last post i made was 10 hours ago... the word just would imply something of recent occurance... learn some english first... then you can come over here and apply for your share of the pain with at least a chance of holding your own... otherwise, you're gonna appear to be a mindless babbling idyut...

or better yet... go work on a game or something...

@ Enay... you're quite right E... if only the some of the others had the same insight...

@ Ferminho... it was late and i had just finished up a bit of modeling work... i was about tosign off anyways, and i made the mistake of checking in on our warm, friendly, community... hey, i actually dislike DBPro as well... but this is nothing personal... its business... i gotta get this thing wrapped up and ready to go like yesterday, and if DBPro can help me do that, wierd syntax or not, it's gonna be the tool of choice... by your post, you seem to understand...

--Mike

I think YOU should consider learning english. :P

why... i live in the USA... i speak American... it's a lil different than the Queen's English...

now, do ya see how unprepared you are to mess with me D :P

besides... typos don't count... and can be corrected with the edit button...

--Mike

And yet you still edit it :P

yes... isn't that what i just said i was doing...

duuuuhhhhhhh...

read the post immediately above again... s l o w l y... then count to 10...

[added]
ok, you can just count to 8 seeing as your hoofs only have two uhhhh, toes... or whatever you call those things...

--Mike

:D - me thinks you use the edit button too much.

i'm an old man... gimme a break, will ya... besides, i have 4 monitors on at the moment, and my attention is divided amongst a compiler and a stock market feed, and this foolishness...

and whether or not you wanna believe it or not... this takes the lowest priority at the moment...

unlike you, i do have to try and make some money during the day... unlike you, my mommy doesn't fund my daily waste of bandwidth on these forums...

unlike you... this isn't the high point of my day... unlike you, this isn't my total reason for living...

LOL... sorry dude, that just came to mind and i had to use it...

--Mike

kk - I don't take offence from a thread like this any ways.

well.. at least you have some sense... there's hope for you after all :)

--Mike

Remember this quote whenever talking to Red:

"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

I just want to know what this 100,000 sold units DB Pro title is. Cuz frankly, if it's so huge and selling so well... Why the secrecy of saying what it is? Ashamed of the language it was written in??

100,000 sold units is advertising/marketing tricky shot..or maybe number of hapy peoples (before purchase)/sad peoples(after purchase).. I have DBPro, but I never seriously did anything with it..still buggy for serious work..

Or maybe that's how many copies of the game were purchased. Can we leave judgements out of it for a sec? I really am curious to know what game this is. The only commercial DB game I know of is the mahjong game on GG, but I've never really paid any attention.

I guess that's the problem Red and other's have discussed again and again - we all rely on Mark to come up with the goods.

If a particular feature we require is not there we're stuck. Unless we take the time and effort to learn DirectX/Open GL and C++.

> i speak American... it's a lil different than the Queen's English...

Yes, the Queen uses one full stop.

I'm not sure, but I think he's reffering to "Driving Test Success: Practicle" or whatever is was called. Possibly he's reffering to the StarWraith series which is so "stable" that I'm lucky if I can play it for more than a few minutes before a crash, where I need to restart my PC until sound works properly again.


Right. Just like "Battlefield 2"? I hear that's real stable[/sarcasm]


Funny how you have to make your entire post bold to get people to read it.


It doesn't look to me like anyone is giving you a hard time about this. That's more than I could hope for if I, for example, had posted "Defecting to Blitz3D!!!" in the DarkBasic Pro forums. Like many others here have said, if DBPro works for your purposes, then fine, I hope you enjoy it.

Many have stated that Blitz3D is superior to DBPro in many areas including: language modularity, features (texture layers, entity blending modes, etc.), entity system, and especially speed. If anyone has evidence that DBPro is far superior to Blitz3D in ANY area, other than shaders (since it has already been established that DBPro is superior to Blitz3D in terms of shader support), don't hesitate to post that here.

Actually, what is the point of this thread? If Red doesn't want anyone to post pros and cons about DBPro and Blitz3D, what is the purpose of this? Do you want everyone to put on a fake smile and shake your hand, without being curious about your decision? Hmmm... maybe this entire thread is a planned expiriment where Red is actually studying our reactions for his psychology thesis!!! Just kidding. :)

Don't make me post more images. I will do it, you know.

Do it! Do it! Do it!

hey... is this thing still going on... sorry, i wasn't paying attention...

i was distracted by something... something called A LIFE!!!

get one WarrenM... you with your oh so original misquotations... like we never heard that one before...

and JohnJ.... who the hell are you... why do you keep posting replies to me, when i never asked you to in the first place...

and it looks like i was right jH...

you just keep talking... and talking... and talking...

at least noel and kanati and enay and naughty alien and steve e have something to say when they post...

even Brice comes in there with some relevant material every now and then... but you guys on the bottom here are just getting ridiculous...

is there some reason why you can't just let this dog of a thread die... or do more mature minds have to lock it for it to end...


--Mike

I think that we all are going for a "most inane post not locked by the rabid moderators thread" :)

And I'm still waiting for the name of that "blockbuster" seller of more than 100,000 copies.

Yes, but I say what I want to through interpretive dance.

I have had it with this thread, its going no where. Im doing you all a favour by locking it - look happy about it!.