Uncanny Valley

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_Valley

If you think for a minute, this same concept applies to realism in CG systems.

Agreed. For both graphics and physics.

Yup, this was mentioned in this years Siggraph when there was (a good one!) a presentation about realism and behauviour in context of modern high-end games. Making things just LOOK better in fact decrease the gaming experience was the main point of the that presentation... when things look enough real we expect so much more realism in every other related detail, like humanlike movement and body language.

http://www.blitzbasic.com/Community/posts.php?topic=50151&hl=siggraph

(My post in the middle of the thread)

I think this is one reason why people will be disappointed with the next-gen consoles. We've been hearing all this hype on how great it will be, and when we actually see it, realistic as it may seem, it feels less of an experience.

I mean, Quake4 looks really nice, but did that save it from being slaughtered?
The same mechanics would probably be better in a cartoonish setting, because people don't expect as much from that in terms of physics and realistic expressions.

i dunno about empathetic responses and all... a robot or an ai or an npc, is just that... a robot, an ai, an npc... nothing more...

besides... i don't give much empathy to most real world entities... only dogs get any sort of empathy from me.


anyways... i'd rather have real over cartoon... and, if it's cartoon, i'd rather have cartoon all the way, and not real...

regardless though... i think that the reall issue here is not the creations... it's the audience...

the audience has been lulled into accepting, even expecting, so little from the technovelopers nowadays... that it sets the scene for this to even become an issue for discussion in the first place...

sure Quake4 looks great... but it's still a 2D flat representation... the same flat 2D representation we had 10 years ago... and the audience is no more able to become part of the environment than it was able to 10 years ago...

... and what's more, the audience is even satisfied with it... satisfied to the point of engaging in debates of issues that are totally irrelevant... like this one...

most don't even realize that there is something better... VR, for example, on the games front, might be a big step in making the virtual more real...

while better presentation graphic algorithms are great and all... i really don't think that anyone in their right mind would consider a scene from Quake, or HL2 real in the first place... they may appear 'realistic' (in a strange sort of way), but hardly real...

another factor... the characters in the game... they looked pretty realistic, didn't they... reall good graphics... but, come on now, did any of you really feel anything when any of em were torn apart by the strogg... hehehehe...

the only npc that i had even the remotest sense of engagement with was the character Strauss...

and that had nothing at all to do with the graphics that represented him...

what made him seem more 'real' was that he was the only npc scripted to voice an arrogant, selfish concern for his own survival... quite human indeed...

in other words, his presentation conveyed a personality... and that's where it all lies...

that, and the point about 2D vs VR is the reall issue here... empathetic response to a robot... or a computer generated npc... come on, gimme a break...

... we've got a looooong ways to go before that even becomes any sort of legitimate issue... especially if we continue at the direction we are heading now.


--Mike

Interesting. I guess there's just a point where an AI just becomes too close to full human that we experience it as 'creepy'. It must be some kind of primeval response, I suppose - the point where we, as humans, perceive it as some kind of 'threat'.

I didn't actually mean AI, I meant that this was applicable to graphics.

I wonder how we'll feel about it when it can be much more empathetic than humans - will we find that comforting, slightly discomforting, or extremely discomforting?

Halo: Sure, but the same thing applies, doesn't it?

big10p: Not really, the uncanny valley is primarily the result of visual input, not any other feature of a specific construct.

Oh, right. I was actually using the term 'AI' as a catch-all term for a robot or any human-like visualization but figured it probably applies to the traditional meaning of AI, too.

Anyway, the 'uncanny valley' would probably explain why I find the 'real doll' (google it) so creepy. :P

You seen the latest 'real doll'? It's supposed to be an 'anime' doll. Needless to say, but I will still say it, that thing is scary as all hell.

OMG! I guess you're talking about the Anna Mae doll? That is seriously disturbing. In fact, that whole bloody site is. I feel traumatized! :P

I guess that's it, considering how it's pronounced. Out of all the things there, that is easily the wierdest and most disturbing of them. The others are passable -- I've been tempted to buy one and set it up in bars and see who hits on it, problem is they're so expensive and creepy.

Not sure. Have you seen 'the torso'? :/

You'd probably be more disturbed by the sheer amount of men that would hit on 'her' - especially after a few beers. :P

Not yet, but I'm going to go find it.

Edit: OK, that's just bizarre.

that suff is weird!

Yes it is. And, judging by a recent TV programme I saw about this, so are their customers. *shudder*