Does anyone attend a game development or design school? and if so, do you like it? Is it worth it? What are the pros and cons.
Thanks.
Thanks.
GameDev Schools
Miscellaneous Forums/General Discussion/GameDev Schools Do you live in the US?
Get a traditional degree in mathematics and/or physics instead.
I'd like to go to one, but New Zealand is limited in regards to those sort of things.
>but New Zealand is limited in regards to those sort of things.
get internship with BlitzResearch and you'll learn lots
get internship with BlitzResearch and you'll learn lots
get internship with BlitzResearch and you'll learn lots
How do you mean, are you serious?
I'm currently on my 3rd year for a BA in Computer Science. But once I finish my BA I was considering attending a Game focused school.
My cynicism prevents me from thinking a game-dev school could be anything other than a bad thing.
You either are, or aren't a good coder. My gut feeling about a game-dev school would be that it's really a factory churning out cloned coders who have no original thought and are mentally incapable of innovation.
I would rather you spent a year away from a computer, travelling around the place taking a bit of lsd maybe, listening to some totally unknown bands and really exercising (and therefore training) the creative side of your brain. OK, maybe I shouldn't be endorsing illicit drug use, but just how many great things have been the creation of someone's drug-fuelled mind? (drugs are bad and they can mess you up, don't do it, no... nooooo!)
I can code, but original or creative thought is a very difficult task for me. Logic, I can grasp instantly. Abstracts totally baffle me. This is the biggest hinderance to me being a game developer.
You can't sit someone in a chair and expect to be able to teach them to do games. It just is not going to work. If you want to learn coding, get writing some software. You also need (NEEEEED) to read other people's code, as much as you can possibly get ahold of. You will learn far more from these 2 things than from any book you can buy or class you can attend.
Please, go forth and code. Stop worrying about how to do it or how good you might be or how to be better than someone else. Tetris was a very simple program, but that one original idea was widely successful. That's all it takes. Something like that could have been coded very poorly indeed, but it would still have been a great game.
You either are, or aren't a good coder. My gut feeling about a game-dev school would be that it's really a factory churning out cloned coders who have no original thought and are mentally incapable of innovation.
I would rather you spent a year away from a computer, travelling around the place taking a bit of lsd maybe, listening to some totally unknown bands and really exercising (and therefore training) the creative side of your brain. OK, maybe I shouldn't be endorsing illicit drug use, but just how many great things have been the creation of someone's drug-fuelled mind? (drugs are bad and they can mess you up, don't do it, no... nooooo!)
I can code, but original or creative thought is a very difficult task for me. Logic, I can grasp instantly. Abstracts totally baffle me. This is the biggest hinderance to me being a game developer.
You can't sit someone in a chair and expect to be able to teach them to do games. It just is not going to work. If you want to learn coding, get writing some software. You also need (NEEEEED) to read other people's code, as much as you can possibly get ahold of. You will learn far more from these 2 things than from any book you can buy or class you can attend.
Please, go forth and code. Stop worrying about how to do it or how good you might be or how to be better than someone else. Tetris was a very simple program, but that one original idea was widely successful. That's all it takes. Something like that could have been coded very poorly indeed, but it would still have been a great game.
Its the same with most education places though, for instance in DevSchool your gonna learn the coding techniques of the teacher, which has its pro's and cons. It wouldnt exactly produce generic clones but it would take a lot of the innovation away from it. Looking at others peoples code / tinkering / reverse coding etc helped me mostly to learn what I do know. Tutorials account for a deecent amount too.
Amen to vinylpusher's ideas. :)
Totally agree, man.
Totally agree, man.
Working for big companies as a coder, arnt you just simply told to do this and that, without much of your own input regarding creativity? But as an indie, you control all the creativity. So it matters what your aiming for?
I think a lot of ppl assume gamecoder==gamedesigner .. while I think gamedesigner==creative/interesting lead, while gamecoder==slave.
It depends were you're coming from (what you already know) and were you wanna go. Here in germany there are a few private academies (game academy in berlin or the mediadesign hochschule munich) which try to provide such an education and bring people successful into the market. I once was invited to the presentation of the final term projects and it was quite interesting what they did and how their ways were. Depending on what you want you can get a bachelor for game design for instance. Best woud be if you look what the concrete lectures are at the academy as they are very different from case to case and look where your're interested in.
Compared to a traditional education at university these academies have still money problems (at least here in germany) and so the students have to pay for attending the school right from the start.
Contrary to university they concentrate on the game stuff and teach things you will never learn at university but they don't dig so deep into the basics of mathematics/physics/programming. If you're lucky you could also study at a university where there are special courses about graphic programming or game programming. But these are little spread here in germany.
Suggesting that studying computer science, mathematics or physics is a better choice i won't agree as it simply depends what you exactly wanna do. You could spare a lot of time from learning stuff you won't need again in your life or use only very rarely. For example i don't see a practical use for declaring mathematical evidences and things like that for making games.
When i was studying computer science for instance there were fellow students running around who also after the study was over had no idea how to begin to code a game. And logic, mathematics programming skills can also be told in other fields...so i would suggest to focus first on what you really want and then look were you can get it best.
There is one advantage if you're studying a traditional subject like they were mentioned above. If the game thing isn't working for you then you have a good fallback but only if you really enjoy it and you're good at it.
I'm not so sure about the art-path (music, graphics) but most of the people who attended the academy i visited already scribbeld when they were small or did music/played an instrument already.
Greetings,
taumel
Compared to a traditional education at university these academies have still money problems (at least here in germany) and so the students have to pay for attending the school right from the start.
Contrary to university they concentrate on the game stuff and teach things you will never learn at university but they don't dig so deep into the basics of mathematics/physics/programming. If you're lucky you could also study at a university where there are special courses about graphic programming or game programming. But these are little spread here in germany.
Suggesting that studying computer science, mathematics or physics is a better choice i won't agree as it simply depends what you exactly wanna do. You could spare a lot of time from learning stuff you won't need again in your life or use only very rarely. For example i don't see a practical use for declaring mathematical evidences and things like that for making games.
When i was studying computer science for instance there were fellow students running around who also after the study was over had no idea how to begin to code a game. And logic, mathematics programming skills can also be told in other fields...so i would suggest to focus first on what you really want and then look were you can get it best.
There is one advantage if you're studying a traditional subject like they were mentioned above. If the game thing isn't working for you then you have a good fallback but only if you really enjoy it and you're good at it.
I'm not so sure about the art-path (music, graphics) but most of the people who attended the academy i visited already scribbeld when they were small or did music/played an instrument already.
Greetings,
taumel
For gamemusic, a modern musictechnology study (bachelor or master) will do. I doubt a game-study will add anything to that other than an easier forming of teams. Most of the time, musictech projectteams are related to student-films, modern dance, music for silent movies, theatre and other stuff like that. I happened to win the composing of a TV series in my 3rd year.. for which I get paid royalties each year since ^_^.
Other ppl I spoke, who were messing around with sound, attended a filmacademy, since that put them close to their future market (upcoming directors). In a way they weren't really composing, just editing audio for video.
So, the only reason to join a gameacademy, as a composer, is to be close to the potential work.
Other ppl I spoke, who were messing around with sound, attended a filmacademy, since that put them close to their future market (upcoming directors). In a way they weren't really composing, just editing audio for video.
So, the only reason to join a gameacademy, as a composer, is to be close to the potential work.
www.uat.edu I'm enrolled there. Online degree, 5 week long classes, one class at a time.
What you have to remember is that game design isn't just porgramming. In fact. We do very little.
Our study focus is more along the lines of each class dealing with a different aspect of game design. Sure we take a few programming classes, but more to learn basics and vernacular so we can talk to programmers working on the games we work on. Other classes include, game theory, 3d modeling, 2d art basics, level design theory and many others. As well as a few really good game buisness primers, things to show how it all works and how to set up a company or get yourself hired. It is an academised aproach to learning what makes good games good and bad games bad. It is designed to give you the tools you need to get hired and know how to do things, and you create games or parts of games in the course of the degree that can be included in a portfolio.
It is more like art school or a philosophy class than it is like a programming class. I know, cause I've been in school for art at www.uarts.edu and for comp sci at www.pct.edu both of those I went to school on campus.
Uat has a campus as well, but I don't want to live in Arizona.
Uat is one of the most respected computer arts and sciences schools in emerging fields of study... in other words. Game design, computer animation and such.
They don't try to train you like other schools. Like Devry and Colins Col. Those schools focus on teaching you game programming or 3d studip max, and expect you to get a job like that. Their 'industry pros' don't have real industry expirence.
UAT has many high level game designers on staff who have worked as everything from programmers, to modelers, to lead visionary.
There is also lots of 'face' time with our professors. Including a few 'Game of the year' winners. Like Mark Baldwin. (designer of the perfect general and empire 1 and 2)
I haven't graduated yet, so I don't know the full extent of what the classes will afford me in the future. But, considering what it has already afforded me (such as discovering blitz and some very close game design friends) I think it is worth it.
What you have to remember is that game design isn't just porgramming. In fact. We do very little.
Our study focus is more along the lines of each class dealing with a different aspect of game design. Sure we take a few programming classes, but more to learn basics and vernacular so we can talk to programmers working on the games we work on. Other classes include, game theory, 3d modeling, 2d art basics, level design theory and many others. As well as a few really good game buisness primers, things to show how it all works and how to set up a company or get yourself hired. It is an academised aproach to learning what makes good games good and bad games bad. It is designed to give you the tools you need to get hired and know how to do things, and you create games or parts of games in the course of the degree that can be included in a portfolio.
It is more like art school or a philosophy class than it is like a programming class. I know, cause I've been in school for art at www.uarts.edu and for comp sci at www.pct.edu both of those I went to school on campus.
Uat has a campus as well, but I don't want to live in Arizona.
Uat is one of the most respected computer arts and sciences schools in emerging fields of study... in other words. Game design, computer animation and such.
They don't try to train you like other schools. Like Devry and Colins Col. Those schools focus on teaching you game programming or 3d studip max, and expect you to get a job like that. Their 'industry pros' don't have real industry expirence.
UAT has many high level game designers on staff who have worked as everything from programmers, to modelers, to lead visionary.
There is also lots of 'face' time with our professors. Including a few 'Game of the year' winners. Like Mark Baldwin. (designer of the perfect general and empire 1 and 2)
I haven't graduated yet, so I don't know the full extent of what the classes will afford me in the future. But, considering what it has already afforded me (such as discovering blitz and some very close game design friends) I think it is worth it.
Sounds great. I'd love to do a course like that.
I was going to say UAT. I dont hold much respect for education on the whole myself but UAT does stand out as a college that has a basic grasp of the games industry and is genuinely attempting to mould their students to be suiteable for it.
Whether they suceed or not of course is, as always, more down to the student than the teaching methods. If you are going to suceed in the game industry you'll do just as well without a degree than with one.
Going to college is the quick and easy way to get your parents to agree to you dropping out of life for 4 years, in the games industry that isn't always appreciated. Many companies insist on non-degree applications, although there's more who require a degree than those who prejudise against them.
Back when I was interviewing for I.T. support staff I deducted 4 years from the applicants age when considering their life experience - which is the prime requisite of a post-sales role.
Sometimes it is better not to have a degree, but you still have to prove you are as able as the perceived norm "degree" level candidate. One way to do that, more than that even, is to register a patent. In the creative world of software a patent /pwns a degree, doubles your salary, and doesnt run up a huge student loan or effect your perception of reality for the 3 months it takes to go through detox.
Whether they suceed or not of course is, as always, more down to the student than the teaching methods. If you are going to suceed in the game industry you'll do just as well without a degree than with one.
Going to college is the quick and easy way to get your parents to agree to you dropping out of life for 4 years, in the games industry that isn't always appreciated. Many companies insist on non-degree applications, although there's more who require a degree than those who prejudise against them.
Back when I was interviewing for I.T. support staff I deducted 4 years from the applicants age when considering their life experience - which is the prime requisite of a post-sales role.
Sometimes it is better not to have a degree, but you still have to prove you are as able as the perceived norm "degree" level candidate. One way to do that, more than that even, is to register a patent. In the creative world of software a patent /pwns a degree, doubles your salary, and doesnt run up a huge student loan or effect your perception of reality for the 3 months it takes to go through detox.
Because so many respected members of the gameing industry work at UAT, and the press they have been getting along with their track record in other emerging fields, A lot of big companies know about UAT and respect it. There are a few job calls I've read over for various jobs at EA that list among the acceptable entrees a degree in computer animation (jobs relating to modeling and such) and a short list of example schools. Including Uarts (which is obvious since they are the best art school in the country) and Uat. I've seen only 1 job call for a more game related game job that mentioned a degree from UAT, but that shouldn't be too big a deal, considering that they have only a few dozen grads. As more people graduate, the school will gain even more respect. Specially since a ton of the already graduated students went on to form their own companies and are currently working on some pretty big projects.
which is obvious since they are the best art school in the country
Says who? I've never even heard of it before; it doesn't show up on Pixar's list of animation schools.
I spy somebody who went somewhere else :) ! lol
Shoot, is it that easy to spot? I guess that's why your sig says "beware of the spectacles."
jhocking
you have never heard of the University of the Arts in Philadelphia?
Some famous Alums
http://www.uarts.edu/stuserv/libraries/archives/alumni/notablealumni.html
Including the Brothers Quay... whom you know as the guys tool ripped off in all their videos ...hehe
you have never heard of the University of the Arts in Philadelphia?
Some famous Alums
http://www.uarts.edu/stuserv/libraries/archives/alumni/notablealumni.html
Including the Brothers Quay... whom you know as the guys tool ripped off in all their videos ...hehe