Playstation 3 dev costs

I couldn't believe this when I first read it. Apparently, it will cost you (US)$17 million just for starters if you want to develop games for the PS3....

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=26945

crazy

It could be in Asian money? Isnt that stuff like 10,000 = $1 USD?

LMAO @ Leiden's Sig :P


[edit]

It said

"He is ugly though" Directed at the Noodle.

A piffling 17 million?! Peanuts! :O

But this means that there will be no crap for the system! Only over-advertised over-priced sequels to the same succesful fighting game (They're all the SAME THING, By the way!!!) from the PS2.



Developing for PC is free.
FREE!!!!

Free in many case but you still gotta pay for some things e.g. Blitz, Visual Studio, Delphi etc. At least they are not too much, well VS and Delphi can be a bomb.

Ah, but you could, however, if desperate create a program using Notepad and a free C compiler along with something like Open-GL from scratch.

I think there must be ome exageration there lol. Probably a worst case scenario. But I know that in 2003 when I last worked on PS2 it didn't even have a proper video codec that could synch audio properly. And most developers we were in contact with were working a couple ob builds behind in order to avoid the plethora of bugs and missing documentation in the latest bulids of the SDK.

I hope Sony learnt something, because one thing MS got right was the software. Xbox was a dream to work with in comparrison, and from what I hear, its even easier on 360.

Ha HAAAAAAAAAAA HA HA HA HAAAA!

No, it means only risk (read innovation) free development will get the green light. There will be nothing but crap (very pretty crap, granted) for these systems. I already have the proof - a 360 "promo" DVD in which every game is a slightly-more-detailed repeat of what we've already got with some asshat Microsoft exec getting terribly excited about the fact that you'll be able to make out individual leaves on trees. The stop before the flora and fauna fetishism? That's the stop where Sledge alights the crazy train.

Bingo!

Um, the thing is the vast majority of people want the same old things that they have already got, only better.

In Japan all the most anticipated games are sequels, just like here. MGS4, Killzone, the new metroid, the new zelda, the next GTA, the next resident evil, the next final fantasy (so much for final ;) The next Gran Tourismo ).

To be honest I'm no exception, I can't wait for Project Gotham Racing, I actually played the first one a lot more than Halo when I got my Xbox at launch. And the series has improved vastly since the Dreamcast original.

I'm also excited about some of the other games. The thing is that without repeat franchises no one would be interested in the new system at all.

To attract consumers the best strategy is to give them good quality titles they are already familiar with. Just look at Nintendo, and Mario. Just how often does he have to rescue some silly princess. And when is Linc going to change his clothes?

I think the Xbox360 lineup is the best ever for any console to date. And there are a few games coming out that look like they are going to be fantastic, just not being familiar with them at all, I'm quite happy to wait and see how they turn out. The excitement for new unknown titles is much less than the ones I know and love.

First on my list are project gotham, and Oblivion. Allthough if money was no object there are at least 6 titles I'd buy on the spot.

If you know anyone who works in the console industry, this isnt a surprise.

Koei is threatening to bail from sony because their costs for doing a game rose from 300k to 3million for PS2 to 19 million for a PS3 game (USD).

EA stated with the costs of PS3 development only established companies can really afford it, and sony freaked out.

Xbox360 development is expensive but MS has a developer program where you are given SDK, and any tools needed if you can prove you have the skills to do it, to them, alot of companies did this.

Plus as anyone knows coding for multi processors is difficult, 2 isnt bad, 3 is more difficult, but 9... sheesh

I'm still waiting for the industry explosion. (And by this, I mean the complete collapse of game development studios due to costs)

That's crazy. You know how much money you could make with real estate if you had 20 million to start with? Why would anyone invest 20 million in a game, plus the actual cost of development?

I was thinking along the same lines, Halo. If I had 17 mil to start with, I'm sure I could find a better/safer way of making money than developing a poxy PS3 game.

I somehow don't think this is true...

Another reason why ps3 may be Sony's golden turkey.

If I had 17 mil to start with, I'd live off the interest and save some of it. The money rises on its own :P

The PS3 site really blames Ken Katargui (SP?!) because he has set the standards so high for games. The price is not that hard to beleive because of the hardare of the PS3.

I personally beleive that the PS3 is way over ambitious for the industry today. In 5 years it would be more viable. But gaming is just starting to explode again.

I could see 500 million consoles selling this round. Especially with how MS is handling the xbox 360 with 2 skus, and revolution.

Plus why develop for PS3 when you can hit PC and Xbox360 at the same time?

Well, yeah. If I had that much money personally, I'd live the rock-n-roll lifestyle to the full and walk everywhere on a carpet of naked supermodels. :P

Meet me there... :O)

So just exactly how many games do they predict will be made for it? I mean this has just got to lower the choice across the board, hasn´t it?

I think it would be wise to remember that The Inquirer are often quite liberal with the truth. Some would even say that they'll take any old crap and publish it as hard fact. Some would even point to past examples. :)

I'm not surprised, and expect to see plenty of games. They will charge what they can, and if it is a bust, they will lower it. No big deal.

hehe, Sony probably wants developers and publishers to foot the bill and keep the price of the system down for consumers ;P

Fat chance, Evak. Sony wants to make money, not make it convenient for the consumer.

FYI: Short story is Square were going under and decided to release one last game. It did really well. =]

If this is true ... and the PS3 is expensive I think Sony's going to crash and burn hard. After playing Xbox 360 and seeing Microsoft's sort of midway between Sony and Nintendo I think they've got a good shot at taking the #1 spot. Previously I thought they weren't being different enough but I think the other's are probably being too radical. Sony's going all big budget and Nintendo's going all pick and and play.

I want to try out all of the systems but Microsoft now seems to have the most sensible solution. Some big budget titles (but probably no $17 million minimum and they also have Live Arcade for titles like the ones we can produce (and they'll foot the bill if they like the game). My opinion has pretty much switched around at this point. I think MS's focus on the community aspect of games as they pushed at IGC will be huge and they'll do really well.

Not that the other's won't ... but I think MS probably has it in the bag for the US anyway.

Sony will probably never crash and burn unfortunately. Their consumer market isn't just the Playstation, its much broader. In fact, here in New Zealand sony is probably the highest selling brand of consumer product :S

Thing is Sony's consumer electronics have been taking a slump since 2003. In the last year they started restructuring and cut 30,000 jobs 10% of their workforce. In 2003, they saw profits drop 98%.

So to me at least, it looks like they are counting on a lot with the PS3. From what I have seen, their games division was one of the strongest, and helped prop up their consumer electronics which took a beating more recently.

Would their consumer market be enough to buffer a total failure with the PS3?

$17 million is rather high, it would only allow triple A titles be released, that is good, but it would limit the range of games quite a bit.

Where does all that money go to! $17 million in equipment?! software!?! hardware!?! what!

I'm guessing all those things, plus licences.

Time to break open the piggy bank...

+BlackD

$17 Million ...

100 person team * Average Developer Salary $50,000 per Year * 3 Years = $15,000,000

Then $2 million left over for tools, computers, and electricity!

Heck according to a Gamasutra article the average salary is more like $61,925

so ...

$61,925 * 100 people * 3 years = $18,775,000

Of course you can probably get away with ...

$61,925 * 50 * 2 = $6,192,500

Then use the remaining $10.8 million on marketing, boxes, and distribution ;)

You're forgetting the developer kits (imagine how much those cost), licensing software (3D Studio Max/Maya/Visual Studio/etc. plus depending on the game engine chosen it could be anywhere from $50,000 to $500,000 just to license it), offices, large amounts of hardware for testing, extra pay during crunch before showings of the game and what-not, relocating employees when neccessary, and wonderful cash-whoring bureaucracy.

Estimate the costs for those as well.

$0?

Probably a lot less than $10.8 million.

But yes, if you're a start-up then you'll need the cash up-front to pay for all these. If you're an existing PS2 devco then chances are you've already paid for some of this stuff so the costs won't be quite so high.

As far as dev kits are concerned, they don't cost too much. The PS2 dev kits were fairly cheap, but sometimes they'd cost a "little extra" for Sony to give one to you. On the other hand, I guess that companies like Square-Enix with flagship titles will get their dev kits for free, plus a little cash incentive to keep their titles PS3-exclusive.

Only if you work for EA.

Unreal3 is 2 million I think I read, which is about the same as Doom3 engine.

Square and other would have to pay. Koei who has been a loyal sony dev forever had to pay... so I dont see why Square wouldnt.

Because if Square say "we're going to make Final Fantasy a X360-exclusive title" lots of people will buy an X360 just for that. They might say that if, for example, Microsoft were to offer them a ten-figure sum for FF exclusivity.

Dynasty Warriors is one of those titles that will sell many units but it won't sell many consoles.

If you live in the US, it's if you are a programmer period. If you are salaried or hourly making more than 27 dollars an hour you are exempt and the employers are not required to pay overtime. Period. If they do you are DAMN lucky. (oh, and don't think that you'll make that 27/hr most of the time either... salaried employees only have to make something ridiculously low like 450 dollars per month to be exempt. So most employers stick your ass on salary.)

yeah, but game development usualy starts with a small team of 4 or 5 and only really reaches anywhere near its full bodycount in the last 6 - 12 months before it ships.

I used to get paid time and a half for overtime as a developer years ago, this was wicked as it really encouraged overtime and we got paid well for the extra effort.

I smell bull@#!*

teamonkey's example is good, but this has already happenned once as it is actually - FF11 was originally intended to see an Xbox release as well - why didn't it? It's certainly not because the Xbox was incapable. Microsoft enforced all Live! games to be run off Microsoft Live! servers - Square wanted to keep the game strictly on their servers so the Xbox never saw a release. Microsoft lost out big time there and they realise it - so much so that the recent 'FF11 on Xbox360' announcement has come in to fruition because Microsoft folded and finally agreed to let Square run the show. Square gets their way.

Square rocks! They've made some of the best RPG games IMHO. I heard that the developers at Square are payed less than the average worker on the streets. Thats pretty shocking. I wouldn't be suprised if they started employing monkeys.

I guess that wouldn't surprise me... I don't know much about Japanese economics though... it would certainly explain why FFX-2 sucked so much. =]

I was initially very for PS3, but now Im going to wait a good while before buying one to see if anything good actually comes out.
Im pretty tired of all the shooters lately, so only a GREAT rpg or adventure game would sway me :(

LOL!, Yeah FFX-2 was a tad "Dejevu". It was kind of basically the same old characters in much more skimpier clothing with a few new things here and there. Looks like this time Sex didnt sell as planned.

ridiculous!

17 million can be used to make much more titles of PC Games, it takes big risk to make a console game that might not even able to get the money back....

A MMO like Ragnarok/Lineage may make more money that console does, especially in Asia, most people play MMORPGs more than console ones coz they'd rather play on their PC.

Playing a MMORPG on a console is like cleaning an entire prison with a mop that has only 2 bristles. I wonder what this cost is going to do to the PS3 title's count.

aahhh... so true... but you gotta realize...

those investors that are able to front a title, will make it back many times over...

just look at what the old ps titles were going for... now add in your cost of living raises, your gasoline surcharge, and your plain greed markup to the new prices...

now you may get an idea of what lil Tommy Gaming Brat will be whining and bugging his yupped up mommy and daddy into spending for new cartidges to stick inside that new PS console he just got for XMas or Chanuka...

they'll make a fortune.... the stuff may or may not be good, but will sell...

--Mike

games like shenmue cost 10 million even on the dc. Triple AAA games will no doubt always cost a lot of money, but you get what you pay for. There's nothing to stop teams doing games with the same scope and cost of a ps2 game on the ps3.
And I'm sure E.A Will.

Sony once said that there where no more than 3 different developers they actually wanted to work with. I'm thinking they might finally get what they wish for.

LOL... very good 'Duck...

--Mike

It's just a rediculous Charlies Angels girl power romp. You need to play FFX first to really understand the story, so anyone who's into Charlies Angels girl power romps probably wouldn't play it anyway and anyone who liked the original very SERIOUS game isn't going to like what they did with the new one. It just doesn't make sense on any level.

My pet peeve is the music. Very good modern sort of music, but completely unsuited for a Final Fantasy brand RPG. And where was Nobuo?

Add to that the fact that it's the shortest FF game in history, and all in all you have one pretty dodgy game.

Honey I'm going to mortgage the house, we will live life as refugees while I pay Sony for Playstation 3 Developer rights. Don't worry though, we'll get our money back.

** Newsflash: Sony declares bankruptcy, investors loose **

I pretty much dislike sony right now. Nintendo arent so bad, theyre into innovation. Xbox, well, theres a path for us there...



Supermodels? You can have them. I want some real women :p

That's what I mean't. I'd walk over the supermodels to get to the real women. :P

Imagine the sound of all those cracking bones. :O

LOL :)

Supermodels don't have bones... they are like MD2 creations - all surface and no content.

you wanna know something weird? supermodels are 10 times hotter than "real" woman.

It's probably all the extasy and such that they take.

skyfire1: which is why you'll screw yourself over if you aim that high when finding a woman. If you always think that there's someone better looking out there, you'll never settle with the one that could be "the one".

"The grass is always greener on the other side" comes to mind ;)

It doesn't appear to be scaring away Fumito Ueda:
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=27016

It's funny as Ico didn't sell well in the US. Just a tiny fraction compared to Europe.

The cost of $17million, thats very over the top. I hate the way sony seems to want to own the market and wipe out the indie type developers. There are a LOT of games on these here forums that could sell. Price tags like $17,000,000 make it impossible, as im sure has been said.

That's because it wasn't Madden 2006.

Well, "I" bought it (and loved it).