new Fantasy/RPG music pack

Hi,

Recently you may have scene some screen shots of a sci fi pack that i have just released, and selling at arteria gaming.

NOW.... we have our first SOUND PACK for sale, which is aimed at anyone making an RPG/Fantasy/D&D type game, and wants music in Lord of the Rings style, with lots of beautiful music and ambiences.

Whats more.. the pack for one week costs just £3.50 as an intro price.

Please check out at

http://arteria-gaming.com/news_music.html


Here you can listen to music samples

I went to buy it, the paypal amount is £4.50, is that right?

sorry - i need to change it

I don't know how paypal charging works, do you mind if I send it from two different accounts as Andy has some small change to use up - or does that invoke two paypal charges?

typo: Dark Laid mp3 on the front page
I think it should be Dark Lair ;)

Very nice music by the way and it's real cheap!

Hi,

Becky

If you need to, do it from two accounts. Its better from one, but if thats the only way, not a problemo!

OK hun, it's not the only way - even I can afford £3.50 which is why your getting the sale, but it's just handy to use up loose change - I wonder how much Paypal make from all the £1.24's accounts littering the internet... ?

lol!

I thank you fgor your interest in the pack and really - whatever is easierst for yourself

Thankyou

Steve

Paypal's so fiddley sometimes - you got it in a single payment anyway :). Wasn't all the support necessary worth it for the price tag !? lol...

Are you doing a graphics pack too for the RPG thingy?

I listened to your samples.... If there are sections of the songs with a nice part to the melody, or a really good part to the song. Those would make better samples. These samples just sound boring and lacking in melody and sept for the last one, emotion.

Unless that is really the case... and for 4$ I could see it being the case, (from a consumer standpoint) I would try to create samples of the best parts, to really put the best foot forward.
Also, if that is the best foot forward, Maybe looking for someone who knows melodies to help write music with you... but I would assume that the good parts of the songs are later in the pieces, that aren't in your samples.

HI puki,

Yep there is a fantasy theme pack in production, which will contain more music, buildings and skies.

The sound packs are just something i do separate too

What would you like to see in a fantasy type pack?

Cheers

Steve

Yertari, in a fantasy type pack, sonicly, I would like to see some personality themes.... The ones you have seem to be atmosphearic... but another part of RPGs, certainly the turnbased ones, are themes for characters or a certain situation... like, doubt, or anger.

And emotion themes can double as character themes... an angry theme makes a good theme for an angry person.

As for graphics, various tribal yurts, and castle parts... and old english style homes... that would be the norm... and lots of small items... potions, lanterns, books, just play Morrowind and make something like a lot of that stuff...

2d stuff would be nice... If you could make a bunch of tile sheets in sizes starting at 32X32 pixels and going out to at least 64X64... that would sate a lot of people and give them some serious parts to work with.

Not really convinced about the quality of the music, note-wise and production-wise.

o.t.o.h. for this low price, I guess it's ok.

I'm not really convinced the more advanced (indie-)game-makers are going to use music that's being used in other games as well.

CS you amaze me

To be honest, i have enough music releases out commerically in the UK, and abroad to know what im doing, and that my production is good

Note wise????

that really has me intriqued.
Why is it people like you seem to just post replies to peoples threads, downing them and what they are doing.

And the price... lol... that really made me laugh.

In my day job if i was doing a big job, i know how much i would be charging for this music.....
BUt the project is done out of passion and a desire to give peopple quality cheaply,.

You really make me laugh...

Don't forget me, I said the same thing that CS said, only I said it under the guise that maybe your samples were poor.

me and CS don't exactly get along much musically, so when the 2 of us feel the same about some music, you better listen.

Well, I agree with Damp about the themes etc.

Seriously tho, in other topics ppl are demo'ing 3d models, and some ppl just say what they think of it. And some will say it sucks. That's life. I'm just giving an opinion, so is Damp.

dark lair: gives me no info other than some drone-sound and that voice.
elven forest: those strings around 0:07 are really spoiling the whole thing, they sound unrealistic
elysa: I dunno what to think of it, it sounds at least not like convincing strings to me..
misty waters: hm.. hard to say anything about it, it's a mix of drones and noises again
valiant: again it doesn't sound like strings to me.., as with elven forest: the problem I have with those strins is that by listening to it I can more or less 'see' your hands moving over the keys. It's a keyboard-melody, not a string-melody.
I've worked with real string-payers. I know strings. These were not strings, note-wise.

Seriously: I'm not trying to down anything, I'm just giving my opinion. It's up to anyone what to do with it.

Thats why 'advanced indie- game makers' pay a bit more and ask people like yertari for custom/unique soundtracks.

I thought it was extremely good quality music and for the price. Also if a track is good why not have it appear in more than one game. You guys are in the music industry so think of how many times a tune has appeared on adverts or other media presentations. Also i dont think it that likely that people 'out there' ie not on blitz would ever notice that some independents are using the same music. Nor if the game was good, even really care anyway.

ps. Damp, I've no intentions not to get along with you, as long as we can keep freedom of opinion without thinking one says something to PO the other. :D

I see your point, but let me make an analogy :D

What about Sean Connery being asked to act the leadrole in The Rock. Sounds fair, rite? Now.. what would you think if his character was called 'James Bond'?
What you're referring to is more like library-music, or stock-music. And yes, they're often used in corporate video, commercials etc. and it doesn't really matter there as it's not really as much part of the whole thing as original music is, in a movie or game.

As to 'i better listen'
hmmmm....

i find it quite insulting that you speak to me this way.

I listen to people, who make constructive ciritque, not people who put down my project.

AS to musical arrangement, it is personal taste, and no two people will like the way a track is arranged.

You two guys remind me of the typical A&R guy in a record label i deal with day in day out. People who simply put down other people for what they are trying to do. You know the irony, when i listen to people like this about a piece of music i do, and subsequently change it to suit their taste, commercially as a release it never does well.

When i stick to my style, my opinion my releases do very very well.

There is a an example of a big remix i did for a uk based record label who have had tons of number 1 hits. I did the remix and the guy wasnt so sure.

So... i took the vocal off that they had supplied when i did the remix, and released the track as an original release. You know what... this guy who had originally not liked the track, ended up playing it on his radio set time and time again.

Music wise, i have over 90 vinyl releases in the uk, have appeared on compilations put out from Virgin, and Warner and have a very successful career in the dance/house/trance, remixing big artists... so please.. please.. dont tell me that i need to listen

What does dance/house/and trance have to do with orchestral RPG music? If you had stuck to your own style, I wouldn't be complaining. When you say that, I understand why you like these pieces.

But electronica has very different compositional skillsets than the RPG music has.

Trance is a very simple musical style, compositionally. It is all about the tones and textures you can create, it is all about the repeatition.



To be perfectly honest, if you go up to someone who writes RPG music as a job, and tell them that their critique is wrong because you have sold tons of Trace music, they will laugh in your face. Seriously.

Thats like if someone who writes TV jingles trys to write a Trace album and tell you that you are wrong in your critique of his music, because he wrote the jingle for jiffy peanut butter.

Dance and House are the same, although less about repeatition as Trace. They are still more about texture than about melody.

RPG music, Orchestral music, isn't about the timbre or the texture, as all orchestras contain roughly the same instruments. It isn't about what you use and where, it is about how you use them, and the notes they play. The texture of the melody, not the texture of the rhythm.

As you said, when you stick to your style, you do well. This isn't your style.

no... i ma signed house/trance producer

But i also do game work, and production work. I was just outlining my production credentials....

And as to your comment about trance..........

simple

hmmm.. i guess you dont listen to 'proper trance'

trance is one of the most musical forms of dance music, with rich melodies - your obviously listening to the wrong type.

By the way what do you do?

lol. Beat that, you two! :P

..and dance/trance is not fantasy/orchestral. That sci-fi track was quite ok in fact, the only reason I gave some critics the first time was because you only showed the intro, which wasn't showing anything special, but that's all behind now.

btw, those 90 vinyl releases tells me as much as me telling to you that I've a white cat ;). It really doesn't change anything to my opinion.


Yes, that's what I do too. If you wish I could give something constructive.

And again, plenty o' ppl ask here about 3d models they made, and luckily: plenty o' ppl reply on that. Same with code... showing leads to reacting..

/shrug - your all moaning about strings, thats the exact reason I bought em.

Classical music is usually the best choice for most games, yet the hardest to get as an indie.

Ironic really when you consider the copyrights expired on most of the music 300 years ago - but for some strange reason orchestras seem to think they own their own "indie/fan/retro remake" versions of it.

You know.. im going to stop now, no matter what these two guys say.

All i did was to come on highlight my project, with the hope that some people would like what i have done.

I can take constructive criticism, but i just dont like being PUT DOWN, as C did to me

I am doing my game projects out of passion, so .. im going to be the bigger man, and stop this futile arguing

Have a lovely day

Steve

Becky, they do...

whoever performed it, owns their performance of it... whoever creates a new arangement of it, owns their arangment.

I want houses, taverns, shops, guilds, stables, blacksmiths, wells - that sort of stuff.

OK Puki,

This is the kind of material i am working on right now, i will have some screen shots soon for you

THanks

Steve

Oh come on steve, just read what I wrote above. I said the sci-fi track was ok. My main comments were about strings. The other tracks are again so minimalistic that we can't make cheese of it (just like the first sci-fi demo).

But ok, let's turn the table: just say what we have to say to please you, while still being able to give our opinion.

Yertari, I'm only able to comment on the samples, I don't know where they go from there.

I can comment on Trance tho. While Tranc contains melody and lots of it, it isn't very memorable, it isn't even the focus.

When I speak to Trance listeners, they don't comment on the melody, they comment on the texture, or as some might say, the beat. They comment on how easily they can slip into their trance.

I'm not busting on Trance, I wouldn't be able to write a good Trace album any better than Metallica could write a Waltz.

Or than Me and CS_TBL could write a musical that does better than Cats.

But thats because they aren't the same, they don't require the same musical skillsets.

You could write some great RPG battle themes, but not in the style of Final Fantasy.

I mean, you even compare your music to lord of the rings, which has on of the most blissfully wonderful scores. But your music doesn't capture that.

It is the same simple progressions you see in the electronica you write, which isn't bad, it just doesn't suit the RPG world well.

Especially the Standard Fantasy, like DnD and LOTR. For that you want chamber music, orchestral battle themes, and many themes running throughout the music.

When you listen to the LOTR soundtrack, every character has his or her own theme that pops up within the music. And every situation has it's own kind of movement theme, battles, adventure, caves, openess...

RPGs break this down into Character themes, and Locational themes. Where a character might deliver a speach to their own theme, and most often first show up to that theme. And other times a location itself will have its own theme, either, based on ground type, like, Town, Forrest, Swamp. Or based on that specific location.
Town: Dingleburg's theme, Town: Cratoria's theme, Cave: Burning Dead's theme.

Written often time specificly for that location.

Like in Final Fantasy 6, Doom Train's theme, for when you are on the train, the music follows the tracks sound, clickity clack.

Or a character theme, like the Chocobo theme.


Lets take your theme, Elven Forest, at the begining, I did have the feeling of a forest, through the standard foresty sounding, but that soon broke into an almost accordian sound, that made me think cobblestone town, frechy, and then a string progression that doesn't seem to carry anything but some slight doubt, which is the only emotion I felt listening to these themes.

Now, If you had followed that string's progression with the part from the begining, It could have the same doubtful feelings, but what does doubt have to do with elven forests? Elves don't tend to be a very confused people, perhaps it is bad elves going to kill the player, so then it is the player that is feeling very ill-at-ease... And this could work.

But as the music stands, you feel doubtful of nothing, not the forest, or the french town.

btw, sometimes while blitz'ing I listen to Digitally Imported @ Shoutcast, does that qualify as good trance? :D

I think that these themes are perfect for RPG's and a lot of other stuff as well. They have great drama & beauty.
Well done - its great to see quality media available at such give-away prices.
There is a great difference between media thats produced to make money and media for thats made for love of the art. I sense you do the latter.
Don't let the critisism of those who talk a lot, but do very little, put you off.
I'm looking forwards to seeing what you come up with next !

Thankyou for your kind words

I have a thick skin.. working in music gets you that way!
My next pack will be a full sci fi music pack, which was started in the sci fi theme pack, but this one will contain lots and lots of music.

Also.. my fantasy theme pack is nearly ready to launch, this also containing more rpg styled music

Cheers buddy

Steve

Well I'm pretty pitch deaf so my comments are probably void, but I could do better with my eyes clos...Ha ha- Only kidding! - those samples seemed suitably generic to me and would easily lend themselves to many variations in the LOTR/RPG genre...you can't please everybody - no point even trying! Stick to it Yertari.

I thought the tropical pack was coming next? =]

Dont let all the talk dissuade you.

I've bought the product and i'm happy with it. These guys havn't bought the product and their complaining about it.

Do they want a refund? I say give it to them - refund the exact amount they paid and walk away... ! :)

-*-

Classical: Full Orchestra; and Chamber music is ideal for computer games.

Trance, techno, dance music is over used in games because of a historical limitation of alloted sample space in memory. We do not have that limitation anymore and now too many indie games still ship with some form of dance music.

The problem with using a modern form in music is that you isolate some users from your product who do not like that style of music.

You could add rock, and rock music lovers wont bat an eyelid playing your game, but rap music lovers will get really annoyed at the music.

Case in point: SimSail showcase thread (now on about page 2 I think)... Go read, i'm not talking jibberish here.

One of the tricks around this is to use classical music because it doesnt actually offend anyone, that's why classical music is so common in AA games and in films.

Yet as an indie I cannot get an orchestra to sit down and record a sound score for me - but I can quite easily get a hobbyist musician to record something techno or rock or in another popular form and they'll almost certainly be willing to do it for free. Just cruise an .mp3 site and approach artists until you find one willing, i've only once been turned down in 4-5 years of getting music this way.

Yet I can't get orchestral pieces for love nor money, and that's what I really want to put into games.

That's where this sound pack scores well. I dont care if the strings dont sound like the LSO loose form, or like their violin section when playing in a more modern and tight style.

I dont care if the composition isn't quite as high a standard as Gian Peri Reverberi and if the backbeat isn't as energetic and stylish as the chamber orchestra Rondo Veneziano.

I just know that it's basically good quality, generic, ambient tunes to use mid-game. Which is exactly what i've been trying to find for a few years now.

Hi,

No i never give up - and always work hard on what im doing. What is very cool is everyone who bought the packs totally loved the music and feel they can use the music. Its only these two guys here (who never bought the back anyways) who listened to the samples and didnt like.

Becky... your totally on it with your comments - you seem the wise one here on these forums!!

Vanilla, re the packs - i do two different lines. One is the 'Theme Packs' and the other are the 'Sound Packs'
Both theme packs, i.e. the Tropical one and the 'Fantasy' one are on target for their release over the next few days, as will another sound pack later today.

Ill keep you informed.

Thanks

Steve

I think it is important to note, I want you to do well.

I think CS does too, and he and I have bucked heads over his words, I know he doesn't mean to be a @#!* about anything, and I know I get the same reactions from people sometimes.

Both of us really just want to give you tips. And when people try to disregard what you are trying to say on a large scale, by nitpicking small details on the small scale, is when I personally get annoyed.

You are right, we didn't buy the packs, and with good reason, as me and CS both do our own music when we need it. So all we have is the samples. So, my origional statement, that you should find the most interesting section of the songs to show as samples is still where I'll stand.



Becky

If you need orchestrated music, I would be glad to write some for free. I finally figured out at least how to change instruments to samples with MadTracker, so all I haveto do is buy that proper and get tons of samples and I can produce some higher quality stuff than just midis... and If you wanted me to write some stuff, I would of course buy it. Right now, having my name on things is more important than the money.

SO, if you or anyone else would like me to help them score their game, give me an e-mail... There are some samples of my stuff on my site.

I rarely ever finish anything DampeS8N so commissioning work is something I rarely get around to doing, then when I do write something I often dont want to wait for a music track to be finished.

I guess that's why the pack suites me :). I feel really bad about about getting people to do stuff for me if I dont finish my end of the deal.

btw, for the ppl assuming we talk a lot but do zippo, I'm working on a small "what-do-*I*-do".mp3 (fantasy/rpg-style, which is basically what I do anyway, it's not really related to this topic)... I Decided so because it makes not much sense talking like this without ppl even knowing me other than my never-ending "use-banks"-propaganda. :D
Normally I do a lot, just not right here, atm I'm working my ass off for TV (primetime, nationalTV).. editing is these weeks and I just *know* the director temps with every style imaginable.., *sigh*.

And for the rest: what Damp said. I'm like candy: hard on the outside, sweeeeeeeeeeeet on the inside ^_^. But in all cases, I am who I am, and regarding quality of music I'm always honest. I can't lie.. when I do lie it'll look weird. The only alternative would be saying nothing, ever.. is that a good state of affairs then?
Yet better, during my study I was convinced half the class didn't deserve to get points for their work, and teachers were plain softies. :D
Otoh, when interested I can *always* explain any remarks I have in-depth. So, if you're interested, just shout..

Well, here's my 2 cents. Bought the pack and had a quick listen to all the tracks just now. Only 2 tracks really stand out as musical tracks (OK, I lie - 3, but I'll get to that later)... the other 7 tunes are either pure ambience (I like that term coloured noise, except people always assume 'noise' has negative connotations, it really doesn't!) or with such light/soft harmonies that they are designed for ambience as well. No notable melodies. Which is absolutely fine, I could see them fitting into an RPG game during exploration very well.

No battle music to be heard though.

But comparing them to the Lord of the Rings soundtrack in any way, shape or form is probably false advertising. Still, you give away samples... I havn't listened to them so I can't say whether or not they are a good representation of what you get in the pack.

The two most notable tunes are Elysa and Eventual. One is very very good... and one is quite bad. Elysa has no gel to it at all, it's a haphazard mishmash of a few repeated solo-instrument melodies, a couple of which are quite annoying, too. And 'Theme of the little peoples' is basically another shorter, slightly less annoying version of Elysa. Eventual on the other hand, is a beautiful track - and just as well, too, because I listened to the tracks in alphabetical order and I became a little worried after hearing Elysa =] The melodies and use of instruments in this tune are very well structured and gel very well with each other. Even the breakbeat.

Yes, there's a breakbeat - shattering any resemblance to Lord of the Rings this pack could have possibly had =] But as I said, everything about this tune really is near perfect and could quite easily give any indie RPG a positive boost in professionalism - not sure how well suited to a typical medieval setting it would be, because of the breakbeat, but anything barely resembling modern times (or a technologically advanced town, perhaps) would do well with this tune as it's theme.

All in all, even with only 8 tunes this pack can be well worth the cost to implement in any RPG game and provide a positive boost... The two other tunes... well, what can I say... most RPGs give the little peoples annoying tunes, so it could just fit right in anyway!

I will certainly be very eager to see how Steve progresses when it comes time to release more fantasy music - be it in the form of music pack or theme pack. Another pack full of ambiental soundscapes wouldn't be a bad thing by any stretch - personally I would like to hear some battle musics though. At least one normal battle and one boss/tough battle. Please =]


Interesting so many people say that, but it's really bullcrud. There wasn't really techno overload until CDs became the game distribution format of choice. When you're streaming CD audio, sample space in memory isn't an issue.

Vanilla, I agree about trance, techno.... the reason it is so popular in games is because it is super easy to make, and only others who make it, or who are really into that scene will know the difference.

Hi

I have been making a living writing trance for the last 6 years. The trance market unfortunatally is a very very flooded market with lots of music called 'Trance' that isnt actually trance.

Most of the commercial pop music we see, espeially in the UK charts nowadays is classed as Trance which is a bit bizarre, but because they contain euphoric melodies and 'trancy' sounds suddenly they become trance.

The trance musicstlye when done properly is a serious, evolving sound, with top notch production values, and beautiful melodies.

Steve

I agree, Yertari, but that doesn't stop the laymen from considering the electronic music used in video games to be a good example of trance, or techno, or whichever.

This is why, to the vast majority of people, the techno music in games is seemingly fine. When in reality it blows. Not because techno blows, but because it is written by people who don't know what they are doing. It is easy to make a beat, and some cheese bass and some synths as compared to say, what Nobuo Uematsu does. Where, useing the same instruments would be possible, but even the most tone deaf person on earth could tell that one is good and the other bad.

Because a lot of the electronica scene has subtle rules that the public doesn't seem to know about nor care about, the genre gets flooded with junk. Just like any genre that is widely popular.

More so, because the yuppies that go to raves and dance clubs don't care a lick about what they hear, as long as it has that beat. And almost all electronica has written into it's rules that that beat must be present.

The fact of the matter is, these people would have no problem dancing to a bass drum, snare and hihat hit on the 8th notes.

It is a lot the same for all pop music in history... mostly crap, with some good sprinkled in somewhere..

It is just that Electronica is particularly easy to write badly, since you don't -need- to know anything about notes or chords or how to write lyrics....

Where as, other pop musics, like rock and roll, required some melody, and lyrics... and a good singing voice..

Hust to let you guys now.. the fantasy theme pack is coming on really nice.

Its going to comprise of two complete towns in the one pack, that can be placed as you need them, or make up a 'proper' town, with paved roads and such like.

Also, the music is going to suit the mood very nuicely.

More news as i get it

Cheers

Steve

Is there going to be an exe that shows the models off together nicely? Or are they too much effort to make =]

Too much effort????

I will be making a demo for them yes, as has the sci fi pack been made into a demo - i just need to secure the models in the exe before i put it for download - this is the problem

Steve

Hi

Just thought i would let you know, that the fantasy theme pack is going really well and well into production and the buildings are looks very cool

Steve

wow its been 2 years already?!?!? so how about you give us some info on how this pack has sold????