Community & Group Projects - a thought

Greetings Puppies,

Over the years (old git that I am) I've seen group/community projects start and, apart from Alien Breed, fail. The reason for this, as far as I can tell, is that everyone wants to create the next big thing and starts with a project with a scope that is beyond the reasonable.

Instead, what about having an area of the beginners board or a forum for community projects where 'simple' projects are developed. For example, space invaders, frogger, etc, where the concepts are not too difficult to understand and where people can pitch in without requiring a massive amount of commitment.

You see, I consider the basis of a community project as one where people learn and develop, and where people can look at code, see the reasoning behind using one peice of code over another and so on. If someone comes up with a better way of doing something, or prettier graphics, then that is added. The benefit of doing it this way is that the skillset of all is increased and, ideally, reusable and stable code is generated.

What do you think?

[Edit]
Ok, I know what you think having just looked at the beginners area. Sorry for wasting your time ;0)

http://www.blitzbasic.com/Community/posts.php?topic=42748

[/Edit]

Peace,

Jes

It would be fun to make a smal community project, you'll get a little experince from it too.
And it won't be that hard to complete like the other current community projects.
Im in for starting a smal comunity project, a frogger remake would be really fun to make.

I'm curious as too who defines that?

Soggy, as a Community Project Lead, I have recieved a mass amounts of flack. Some say that my Project Objectives are too complex. Some say my jargon is to complex. Some say my management style is too complex. Some say my code is too complex.

I all I say is, that running a Community Project is complex. There are too many 'cyber' emotions flying around and you dont normally get to interact with anyone in the real world. Typing text in a forum doesnt always cut it for communication.

Some want rules, some dont; Some want to work on a AI while another has elected to too; Some write comments, Some dont. Some want a separate forum, some dont. Some have tools, Some do not. It becomes impossible to satisfy everyone, so you end up buckling down or buckling under.

Why does the community project have to be small and simple? Why does it have be focused on another space invaders, another? Why not a Unreal, a MMORPG, a Epic Space Battle Simulation. Aren't those the games that have inspired some of us to program, model, animate, produce music for games in the first place. Why not try to aspire to those games?

Why cant some of the experienced programmers work together to build a game using the more challenging features found in Commercial Games? Just because we're using a BlitzBASIC doesnt mean we have to programe a 'basic' game.

All I can say is, I get better with working Community Projects the more I try (Cliche #1: "Pratice Makes Perfect!"). I'm learning what works and what doesn't (Cliche #2: "You have fall, before you stand").

So if your up for a challenge then a community project is it, no matter how simple the game is.

Well,... simply put,... your projects ARE too complex. (This is not a criticizm,... so don't take it as such) It's simply a fact that not everyone WANTS to create a full-on 3d game with the absolute best physics and rendering engine blah blah blah.

On the other hand,... not everyone wants to create another mindless space invaders or tetris clone either.

I'm personally in a category that is square in the middle of those, and simply wants to create simple, fun games that are something different. Simple games do not mean easy or basic, they are simply a different category of game, and blitz is very well situated to make these kind of games.

With that said,... can't we all just get along? If you are not interested in a certain project, don't bother getting in the way of those who are interested. (That goes both ways, by the way)

Agreed. I was hoping to motivate folks that were and willing to do it for free.

I've started a small project called "SpinShooter." You may have seen it in the Showcase area. Is that the kind of game you are talking about? Addicting and fun?

download:
http://www.noenemies.com/downloads/SpinShooter.zip

Don't know if that was directed at me or not, but I will answer anyways.

no,... not at all. I think it should be named dizzy shooter! :) It looks nice and all, but I find the spinning obnoxious, and I'm not that big on shooting things in games,... If I want to shoot something I'll use my real gun and go shoot some targets.

The kind of games I refer to, there are not many good examples, and a bit of history is needed to understand what I am saying.
Back in the days when all games were 2D (Genesis, SNES era), there was innovation, (although near the end it was platform after platform.) Then Sony came along with the Playstation, and forced developers to make 3D only games for the system,... Sega and Nintendo had to follow suit, even though the Saturn was made to produce awesome 2D games, they made crappy 3D games instead... BUT,... 3D was not ready yet, so we were forced to play horrible-looking 3d games because the hardware was not there yet. What got missed completely was an advancement of the older game styles on new high powered systems. I think the first Oddworld game is a good example of this, and I really wish some developers would have continued to create that style of game. Some of this is nostalgia, but back then, we did not have these sequential games that simply add on to last years game,... each new game was unique in some way.

I don't know,... I'm rambling now and I hate it when messages get too long so I'll stop.

Greetings Puppies,

@Frank: I agree that it is mostly the FPS and MMORPG that truly inspire, far more than tetris and space-invaders. However, how many times have you seen on the forums a newcomer asking how to this, that and the other in an FPS and then asking how to set the graphics mode or how functions work or what to do with types.

The idea, as I've said above, and also in http://www.blitzbasic.com/Community/posts.php?topic=42748 and http://www.blitzbasic.com/Community/posts.php?topic=42770 is that more than the game created it's how you get there that counts and ideally you should a) take as many people along with you as possible, b) let people join in without meeting a vertical learning curve and c) let people leave without the project grinding to a halt.

I see a community project as a self-teaching tool for the community. There should be different levels of competency (and commitment?) catered for, I agree, but the more complex the project becomes the higher the expectations become of those contributing. With the best will in the world you don't want a complete programming newbie saying "I'll do the AI" for a MMORPG.

Anyway, that's the scope of what I want to acheive. Anyone is welcome to join in and take a look and we'll see what happens. It might fall on it's butt, or it might not. I'd hope it doesn't fail because we're short of these sorts of blitz specific resources.

Oh, I agree about space invaders being mindless. But that's not the point. It's the techniques learned whilst making the simple games that give you the techniques for the bigger games. From tiny acorns come mighty oaks (and also Elite - ok, not quite). I sometimes think people forget that.

Peace, and good luck,

Jes

I think also, one of the problems with aspiring to create a grand, all singing-all-dancing game project is that (and there are absolutely NO personal attacks/criticisms in this post!) those that are most capable and proficient with Blitz and the tools they use, those that understand the 3D engines, AI and userlib coding the best, that can achieve the most with Blitz3D have either gone-off B3D in favour of other languages, are too interested in utilising their knowledge financially for themselves, or simply prefer to work with their own code, and cannot adapt to anothers' framework.