Book or manual for Blitz 3D?

I am curious, does a book or manual exist, in PRINT, that goes over how to use Blitz Basic 3D in detail, with tutorials, examples, code reference, language reference, etc?

Maybe it's just me, but I find it MUCH easier to have a printed book that I can look up questions and code problems with then an online or offline electronic book in HTML form.

Is anyone in agreement?

If there is no book or manual, I am thinking about creating one. I have an extensive printing background and DTP / Graphics Design skills - and the patience to type in every single page of the online / offline electronic manual.

If anyone would be interested in such a book / manual - then I need some ace programmers to help me devise legible and readable tutorials that can lead users through various game and program types.

I already have many games and snippets i've produced that would help people, but I would still like to have programmers, like (and this is not to 'guilt-trip' you in) Halo, Rottbott, BloodLocust, etc who have a firm grasp of Blitz 3D - and yes, I am really focussing on game programming and manual for Blitz 3D and not 2D as much.

So, let me know if you are interested, because I am going to begin anyway, as I need a PRINTED form for me to create what I need for G.E.C.K.O. anyway.

I look forward to replies.

Mike Felker

Do you know anything about Blitz, at all, though?

I believe that falls under the "piracy" umbrella. Or possibly plagiarism. Breach of copyright, either way.

I recommend you go and code something instead.

Yes, there was a printed manual for blitz3d before it went download only. You might find a boxed blitz3d on ebay.

Blitzcoder.com may have versions with manuals - Idigicon have at least one as I picked the sucker up off a shelf (I put it back again though).

Gfk:

I will answer professionally instead of wanting to be rude:

I have been coding with Blitz3d since DAY 1 and I was with Dark Basic before Blitz Basic was a product.

Can I code with Blitz 3D - yes I can

But you do not need programming skills to write a stinking manual.

Is this plaigarism - no. Why? Because I intend to get permission before hand

I was just asking to see if it was something people wanted.

Oh, by the way. Ever hear of the Torque engine by Garage Games (of which I am an owner and coder for) - well they have a little book called "3D Game Programming All In One" by Kenneth Finney. Was Kenneth one of the original developers and creators of Torque? NO is the answer. Did he plaigarize? Of course not - he created a book and sold it - and it is helping thousands of Torque owners who would otherwise be left in the dark.

Personally, I find it difficult, frustrating and annoying to go back and forth between the browser and the manual - I may be old - but I like a printed manual sitting on my desk as a reference so that I can quickly get answers.

Now, on a social note Mr. GfK: It does not help for you to be rude and condescending. I do not know how old you are, I am 36 years of age and WAS taught manners, social graces, etc.

I advise that you be nice to people and treat others as you wish to be treated.

John and Puki: If there is a printed manual, could you tell me where I can buy a copy? If you cannot or there is no way to buy a printed manual or book, then we need a printed manual / book.

By the way, isn't there a book that exists for BLITZ BASIC owners that they can buy in the book stores?

Here are three books I found as a tiny search on Aamazon:
"Game Programming for Teens" MENTIONS Blitz Basic
as does "Game Design Workshop: Design, Prototyping and PlayTesting Games" - I guess these authors must be guilty of plaigarism too???? I better tell someone before they get in big trouble.

I would appreciate any honest and positive responses. Negative responses, if you must make them, should at least be constructive.

Knowing what you're talking about helps a great deal when writing instruction manuals and tutorials.

But you didn't say that, did you?

Perhaps you should stop being so paranoid and heed your own words? The comments I made were based on what you said - "...and the patience to type in every single page of the online / offline electronic manual". That, to me, says that you intended to simply copy what somebody else had already written.

I'm not going to fight with you so please don't bother to bait, because I simply cannot be arsed.

"Its a valuable resource for new Blitz programmers and I've met a lot of good people through the Blitz community. On the flipside, people can be so unnecessarily horrible to each other sometimes and that often makes me not want to have anything to do with it any more." -GFK

Yeah? And?

All I did was point out that A) he gave the impression that he thought a background in DTP/print/graphic design is enough to write a book about Blitz, and B) It looked like all he was going to do was copy the online documentation.

Nothing horrible at all. Now, go stir up trouble somewhere else please. My own quote, right back at you.

The game programming book for teens is all about Blitz. I don't think there's a book quite on the level of Ken's book which should help anyone Blitz or not with 3D game programming. I also use the Torque engine for some stuff. I'd like to perhaps write a book which outlines the entire game creation process and comes with a *good* complete game. Something like FPSNet and the Update but only a full game with media etc... If the book can make a lot of money then such a project could be worth while.

GfK - you should have asked me about my credentials instead of assuming.

It's funny. The entire reason for this thread is that I was looking over my nicely printed Dark Basic Pro manual and reference book that CAME WITH THE PRODUCT.

It's excellent - two fantastic resources for a somewhat unreliable language (as far as I am concerned).

I love coding in Blitz - it's fast, efficient and open-ended - and not that hard (as compared to c++ or something like that). However, my purchased version came with nothing more than the download itself (the language, ide and online/offline manual). Here is the good old US of A, Blitz and the other UK products are not available here through normal retail outlets.

That's why I thought it would be a nice idea to have either a book or manual resource in print.

Now knowing this info - that I am a coder, totally familiar with most of the Blitz language and all the other things I mentioned, would anyone in this community benefit from such a book?

Jeremy - is it about Blitz BASIC or Blitz 3D???

I had every intention of actually writing a book that acts as a reference / manual and during which we (we being anyone that wishes to be involved) construct a game from start to finish in Blitz 3D using Blitz 3D and any popular programs to get the game done (such as photoshop, milkshape, etc), by the way. I really did not make myself very clear, I realize, I was just fishing to see who was interested (as in "yes's" and "no's")

I've seen many posts in the past asking for a decent printed manual so I'm pretty sure you'd get at least some takers for this idea.

I got the printed manual when I bought my copy of B3D but it hasn't exactly been indispensible! :) It has several pages missing and is hopelessly out of date. I guess that's the problem with a printed manual: it needs to be updated every time blitz is. IMO, BRL had little choice but to ditch offering a printed manual.

However, if you're really prepared to put the time and effort into producing one, I guess you could do it in a format that the pages could be printed and placed into a standard type clasp folder thing. Then you would only need to update certain pages where necessary which could be printed off to replace the out of date pages.

As for code, there's loads in the archives which is all public domain so you wouldn't even need to ask the authors' permission.

Interested. :)

Yeah, I'm not interested in the printed manual (I've got one with a copy of Blitz3D boxed) but I never use it. A good book, well I could write it I'm very sure of that. I most likely wouldn't read a book about Blitz though because A. I already can do anything I want with the language pretty much and B. this community rocks for helping out with the technical side of things. On the Torque forums it seems that the actual coding concepts aren't brought up as much as over here and also Torque isn't as compact a piece of work as Blitz is so a book was very helpful.

GFK- youre first reply seemed nasty but upon reading it again it wasnt necessarily so,

I dont think GFK was offending at all he simply asked a question, anyway I have the manual as well and it sucks all its just basiclly an out of date copy of the help that comes with blitz3d itself tutorials and all. I think someone should sit down and write a good blitz3d book and compile a list of helpful tips and what not from blitz users.

Nothing wrong with what Gfk said, seems a reasonable answer to me.

A printed manual for Blitz 3d came with my boxed copy. This manual was a proper thick ring-bound job (just like the orange one that I used for ZX Spectrum Basic) and includes tutorials in mainly 2d, but also a printed copy of the 3d command set. Bear in mind most of this is out of date now.

What would be preferable is an online, up to date resource that can be downloaded and printed in a highly accessible, almost book-like form.

My comment to MusicMan would be that Blitzmax is nearing release, so you will have potentially very few customers and you would be wasting your time.

I don't think you'd be wasting your time, but neither do I think you'd make it worth your while. Now when Max comes out... I'll be looking for some printed material even if I have to cut and paste help files into a word doc to print out.

Fair enough. I will hold off till Blitzmax comes out and see what is included in that, as I will be purchasing that as soon as it hits the virtual shelves.

I appreciate everyone's responses. Understand, I was asking a simple question and felt I was attacked immediately, hence my response. Either way, water under the bridge - it's no big deal.

Mike

Yeah, you have to grow a thicker skin for this forum compared to others, I think. People here tend to say exactly what they're thinking which is actually (usually) the best way to go. You get peoples frank opinions. It's better that someone says that they think your idea isn't such a good one (and give reasons why), rather than everyone telling you it's a great idea just to be polite.

Some peoples replies could be worded better sometimes but I wouldn't take it personally. ;)

I think it's a good idea to make a book about Blitz, but be sure to write wich versions of Blitz are you using in the book, because, from one version to another, one program could not work as expected! (and it's a real problem)

By the way, what is this BlitzMAX? i have purchased Blitz online recently and don't have read the forums before.

From germany I ordered a boxed version at amazon.co.uk, which includes the manual

It seems it's still available:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00005T690/qid=1094471584/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_26_3/026-6053887-8362018

Codemeister and I started working on a book about Blitz3D but that's been derailed just this weekend.

I hope he doesn't mind my mentioning this. Now that the project is kaput I figure it doesn't matter.

I think the book you were thinking about was the one Krylar wrote for programming 2d games in Blitz Basic. All the examples in that book work for blitz 3d but, it doesn't go over any 3d specific code just code and foundation. A really good reference tho.

Couldn't you just print out the command reference, if you just want a reference.

Also why not a book that teaches you general 3d game programming with blitz3d (and possibly also with blitzmax depending on when it's going to go 3d and when it's going to be available)... If you wrote such a thing it wouldn't necesserily be out a date, considering it's not an exact reference but a guide on making 3d games with blitz.

just a suggestion

Ok In the Help File is a complete manual.. Is there anyway to go from The Help file to PDF, Word Or even Text File?

funny, go into C:\Program Files\Blitz3D\help -- check out the two sub folders, the help seems to be in html :-)