Level editor or standard rules-set?

I was just curious (maybe it's too early to decide) but when designing levels for Project Plasma, will some form of Editor/Builder application be used, or will there be a standard set of rules/formats to be applied?

By the rules set I mean something similar to:

The script must be in this format in this folder
Textures must be in a WAD file in a folder called "Map"
Basic terrain size must be X by Y by Z with a scale of 1 unit = xx metres

etc.

?

Its going to be, more or less, a scripting language written through max script. Can't give tons of details, but thats the plan.

8| Max Script? Dang it, that means I will have to shell out 3 zillion dollars for 3D Studio Max for an open source project? ;)

Pepsi,



This is not so. We agreed to use 3DS Max for .3DS format, Light/Shadow Mapping and other editing features. Any software that can generate or convert 3D geometry format to .3DS is exceptable. The PLASMA Engine does NOT use Max script directly, Max Script is converted into PLASMA Script(based on Blitz3D). The Scripting Language and be written using any text editor.

There are several custom editors being written to perform special editing of game objects for the engine, ie: particle editor, verlet physics editor, etc.

TL

If I understand correctly you will build level geometry with a Scripting language ?
Surely it would be more productive to use one of the excellent existing wysiwyg level builders to create the geometry and leave the scripting to set-up and handle events.

Why are you using an out of date and limited 3d file format like .3ds with no skeletal animation or custom nodes ?

If its a Blitz project then why not use the .b3d format which supports all of Blitz3d's features plus its own custom nodes which allow you to imbed as much custom information about the model into the file itself ?

The Blitz3d .b3d loader loads these nodes as children.
This feature can save you tons of coding separate editors as all level information is held within the .b3d file - start positions,triggers,waypoints,teleports etc.

Hope this doesn't sound too critical and I'm not trying to down anything but using an old 3d format like .3ds is not going to help you at all.

3DS? wot? why? R U anti-.b3d?

Please delete all of you 3DMax stuff from your hardrive... it's getting in the way of the open source project. Why? IMHO, the open source project will then end up relying on 3DMax stuff or at least will only benifit the most when using it. Thus, limiting the amount of people who could of fully benefited from this open source project. For the sake of all blitz-kind... Pleasssssse, dont use it! Save that kind of work for other things, like commercial stoof. <:)

ps... the 3ds file format needs to be set up on top of a tree stump and immediately shot by a 12guage pump action shotgun...

Agree 110 % with Pepsi - Max should not be used at ANY stage of the production process if this is to remain 'Open Source'.

I don't understand why you would want to write a script in Max and then translate it to Plasma script which is based on Blitz code. Why not just write it in Blitz !?!

So - its still a bit vague how you and the end-user are going to create their levels.
The file format that should be used is also unclear.
How will you do the character animation - what format - what animation application.

Tell me to shut up if you like but I can see Project Plasma dying a murky death at least as an Open Source project.

My advice to you would be to nominate one of the Level Editors - probably Maplet as its free - as the official Level Editor for Plasma - forget about all that Max script hoodoo.
(Quill3d would be perfect especially for lightmapping but it ain't free)
Use as much code as you can from the code archives - there you can find FPS camera code, particle systems, shooting code etc.

Have a look at the source to Norc's 'Chateau Pregny' the best FPS for Blitz written to date.

Don't overcomplicate things too much - this will put people off collaborating.

Once again this is not a flame and I totally respect and recognise that you've put a lot of hard work into this so far. It would be a shame if it were wasted. I really feel the suggestions I have made would help to make Project Plasma a reality.

Cheers
Smiff ;)

Some very fine points being made here...

The Plasma Engine's current scripting/console system and rendering system relies on accessing sub-meshe's (children) names within the geometry hiearchy for processing. This information cannot be accessed with *.b3D.

I orginally omitted the integration of a scripting/console system due to performance impacts, only later to add one after realizing many benifits. The scripting system now resides at the core of the engine. All features can/will be accessed via the scripting/console. Thus, game object appearance and behavior can be modified without altering engine Blitz code and recompilation.

Active Members (Programmers and Artist) agreed to use 3DS Max for building levels for Plasma's Demo Game. Many other editor's where considered, however, we chose Max based on the following criteria:

1. Artist Choice
2. Blitz Compatibility
3. Engine Adaptation
4. Feature Set

As 3DS Max Maxscript cannot produce Plasma Script, a converter is used to convert the maxscript output to plasma script. Any 3D editor that can produce .3DS geometry can be used. Any text editor can be used to write plasma script.

Project Plasma is open source thus additional support could be added if needed. However, I will most likely not volunteer:) All suggestions are welcomed and appreciated. Project Plasma also needs contributions in the form of code and media. This project will continue to live as long as at least one person continues to contribute.

TL

ouch

thx honey. I'd say - yes, don't overcomplicate it. And why do you limit yourself to 3ds? Couln't you use 3ds, x and b3d? And there might be a max-script to plasma-script converter, who cares, when there is a list of conventions for the plasma-script and one can write a custom Plasma-Script Editor whenever he wants?

Don't discuss too much about it. Do it.

bye.

Hehe wish i hadn't asked now :)

-------------------------

The reason why I did, (and opened p the can of worms), was because I had imagined a basic set of scripts available for AI, lift mechanisms, doors/keys etc yet the actual physical levels themselves (walls, doors, floors, skyspheres and spawn placements could be created using a WYSIWYG editor using simple building blocks, perhaps with a choice of pre-desined basics i.e. Space-Station, Warehouse, Office Building etc. levels.


On a much simpler scale, I have designed a similar thing (but only 2D) for a 'rebelstar' type remake where you can design your own levels (from defalt chipsets), and customise the game types (i.e. Victroy conditions, number of units per player etc)

its here if you want to look!

Malice, the problem is: Such a system is so great - it starts as Open Source - then the Authors recognise its much too good for Open Source - let's make a License-thing out of it ($900 per year per game seems to be a reasonable price) - then they improve it even further - People tell them - wow, you are as good as Doom 3 - and next week the System costs 1 Million Dollar per Game ...

Want an example? 14 month ago - there was a resonable price stated on their website and a download of an impressive demo - since they have been in LA last month at that computer-fair, they really want 1 Million Dollar - I thought I could get a licence for $900 as announced last year - lol
Far Cry - http://www.farcry-thegame.com
Crytek http://www.crytek.com
If its of interest I can deliver the demo via eMule http://www.emule-project.net

To address this, we are planning on taking the level editing problem into serious thought. The 3ds max dependancy will be removed as soon as we full return to plasma development, as of now, we are working on seperate smaller projects to help us learn to coordinate our actions.

There will either be a level editor, or the ability to simply use any third-party software the developer chooses(I would prefer the later). Thank you for your time.